Oculus Rift and Facebook data mining *spawn

[Grall]

Not sure where to post this, but Bethsoft is now naming two more people at Oculus in their civil suit, one of them being John Carmack, and basically straight-up alleges he walked off with Bethsoft IP (source code, presumably) and gave it to Oculus, then Oculus conspired to portray Palmer Luckey as genius boy inventor when his invention allegedly belonged to Bethy.

I don't really know what to say about that; I think John's been in this business long enough to have learned you can't do stuff like that. He's certainly got the brain power to have a very good understanding about IP, contracts and stuff like that. I also think Bethsoft the company is a giant bag of dicks owned by a shitlord lawyer who cares about nothing but money and fucks over their own paying customers repeatedly, again and again on purpose, with every single game they release. ALL of the Elder Scrolls (with expansions) and the two first Fallouts were abandoned with many game-breaking bugs still present in them, despite ES3 and onwards, as well as F3/NV all selling millions of copies and making loads of money for the company.

It would not be the least bit surprising to me if this is a fishing expedition lawsuit because aforementioned shitlord lawyer is smelling money in the VR business and wants a major piece of it.

 

[BRiT]

They're considering everything Carmack did while he was drawing a paycheck by Zenimax to be owned by them, even in his spare time. Hence the claims of theft.

It is what sleazy companies tend to do when their top talent leaves, resort to legal means to attempt to steal what the person did in their own time.

 

[Grall]

They're considering everything Carmack did while he was drawing a paycheck by Zenimax to be owned by them, even in his spare time. Hence the claims of theft.

If that's their actual position then all I can say is I'm not surprised. Did I say they were a bag of dicks? Owned by a shitlord?

Pretty sure there's legal precedence declaring such claims unconstitutional, but of course, I'm not a legal expert of any nation. Anyways, if they really want to claim Carmack's work in his spare time as their own, then they're going to have to tangle with Facebook's armada of lawyers. Just for this once, corporate rule bring some incidental side benefits with it...

 

[hughJ]

I don't suspect that an awful lot of Carmack's VR R&D under Id/Zenimax was genuinely novel to the point where Zenimax can claim IP ownership over ideas/concepts/techniques, and he's experienced enough to know that he can't lift his own code that was written for another company. He's already had some experience in this matter given that he's done Armadillo Aerospace work out of his Zenimax office and had to ensure (legally/contractually) that he wouldn't leave himself open to Zenimax claiming IP related to his rockets, government contracts, etc. Plus his extensive history with GPL and the IP case that occurred with Creative and Doom 3 - I'd assume that he knows by now what he can and can't do.

 

[eastmen]

Its interesting but they are trying to paint Lucky as an idiot. Its documented on other sites that Palmer visted before ever getting in contact with john that he was infact building protoytpes and had sent out a few to other people using a single larger screen split into two.

They might be able to claim that the unwarping tech was done by john while on the clock for them. But that is a far cry from owning the rift

 

[hughJ]

I think the idea is that they're framing their lawsuit according to what would sound intimidating to Facebook given the threat of going to a jury trial. The idea that a high school grad built a commercial VR HMD worth billions to Facebook rather than being the product of a tech industry legend employed by a billion dollar gaming/tech conglomerate is an absurd proposition and an easy straw man for Zenimax to attack. Though it's funny to remind oneself that Carmack similarly didn't receive any significant post-secondary education, was roughly the same age as Palmer when he began his breakthrough work, and is still commonly incorrectly attributed as being the inventor of many of the technologies that he popularized.

The reality is that Palmer built a series of extremely rough conceptual prototypes. During this period he was attending a university AR/VR lab whom were also responsible for building HMD prototypes of varying designs, as well as being active in a hobbyist community whom were also actively hacking/designing. The difference here is that his prototypes were just good enough and the timing just right to get the attention of Carmack and other industry luminaries to start a company and take the next step. The commercial Rift hardware and software as it is right now is not the product of Palmer or Carmack, but an army of specialist engineers, built on decades of R&D, and the assistance of a very willing group of the industry's largest relevant companies.

Zenimax have a good story attached to their case, but I think they're going to have to show some pretty concrete and specific evidence of particular code being wholesale lifted, or some kind of patentable technology that they could claim ownership over. The fact that very few patents seem to have been applied for from the likes of Oculus, Valve, and Sony regarding the core component technologies of that family of HMD design speaks to how well covered it is with prior art. In addition to that you have the fact that older Oculus SDKs have their source fully available (from the period that Carmack was still under contract from Zenimax), likewise the DK1's hardware design was made open source, so I'd imagine if Zenimax has any legitimate claim it's going to come from something obscure that the public is not privy to currently.

 

[eastmen]

the other problem Zenimax has is that valve was also in the space producing prototypes and many of the technologies zenimax claims carmack made under their roof were already being used over at valve

 

[pjbliverpool]

Noticed a couple of new freebies on the Oculus store last night - The Minecraft beta, which seems to work well in VR although I've no idea how to play the game itself. My 11yo sister in law is mad on it apparently so I'm going to get her to give it a try and let me know how it feels.

The other was a big screen mode that allows you to use your desktop on a customisable VR screen in a number of different environments. It's a bit similar to Theatre mode in Steam but I found it to work WAY better. Was even able to play Doom on it in front of a wall sized screen that almost filled my entire vision but thanks to not being proper VR didn't give me motion sickness.

 

[Arwin]

I was camping with my son and he hooked up with two nice girls in no time thanks to his minecraft shirt. My cousin and I were both immediately thinking - we were born in the wrong age!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[hughJ]

Noticed a couple of new freebies on the Oculus store last night - The Minecraft beta, which seems to work well in VR although I've no idea how to play the game itself. My 11yo sister in law is mad on it apparently so I'm going to get her to give it a try and let me know how it feels.

Minecraft in VR is more or less what you'd expect. Scale is excellent and Minecraft gives you plenty of linear perspective to hammer that home. The turning systems are probably the main thing to be concerned about in terms of motion sickness, so that's something you need to be very mindful of (and particularly so if you have someone new to VR but experienced with Minecraft try it). IMO the most comfortable way to play Minecraft in VR is on a swivel chair (or standing) and only use the analog stick or mouse for large corrections every now and then so you don't get wrapped up in the cable. I suspect that most young people trying it will end up not recognizing the onset of motion sickness and ignore it until much too late (even some journalists seem to still be making this error.)

This Oculus VR version is the regular pocket edition, so it's cross-compatible with the Windows 10 version, Android and GearVR Minecrafts. If you have any friends or young family members that play, it would seem like a perfect chance to all join a new game and then play and learn together, particularly if you're in the same room together as there's no voice chat functionality and the text communication is essentially unusable in VR due to the position of the text box and need of a keyboard.

If you haven't given it a chance yet then playing it in VR for the first time for a few days might be a pretty special experience. Despite Minecraft being 6+ years in mainstream nerd/gaming culture, I've still yet to find a single derivative or knock-off that delivers the same collection of features and experiences that it does. It's pretty much the wet dream of anyone who enjoys systems-based, open-ended gameplay mechanics. Very few games are lucky enough to expose me to a new situation or event that I've never experienced before in another game, and Minecraft probably has a dozen such examples.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Minecraft in VR is more or less what you'd expect. Scale is excellent and Minecraft gives you plenty of linear perspective to hammer that home. The turning systems are probably the main thing to be concerned about in terms of motion sickness, so that's something you need to be very mindful of (and particularly so if you have someone new to VR but experienced with Minecraft try it). IMO the most comfortable way to play Minecraft in VR is on a swivel chair (or standing) and only use the analog stick or mouse for large corrections every now and then so you don't get wrapped up in the cable. I suspect that most young people trying it will end up not recognizing the onset of motion sickness and ignore it until much too late (even some journalists seem to still be making this error.)

This Oculus VR version is the regular pocket edition, so it's cross-compatible with the Windows 10 version, Android and GearVR Minecrafts. If you have any friends or young family members that play, it would seem like a perfect chance to all join a new game and then play and learn together, particularly if you're in the same room together as there's no voice chat functionality and the text communication is essentially unusable in VR due to the position of the text box and need of a keyboard.

If you haven't given it a chance yet then playing it in VR for the first time for a few days might be a pretty special experience. Despite Minecraft being 6+ years in mainstream nerd/gaming culture, I've still yet to find a single derivative or knock-off that delivers the same collection of features and experiences that it does. It's pretty much the wet dream of anyone who enjoys systems-based, open-ended gameplay mechanics. Very few games are lucky enough to expose me to a new situation or event that I've never experienced before in another game, and Minecraft probably has a dozen such examples.

When you reference the turning in the game, are you talking about the regular turning or what they define as "VR turning"? i.e. turning in chunks of set degrees rather than one fluid analogue movement? While a little jarring in terms of immersion, it does extremely well at eliminating the motion sickness IMO.

As you say though, the best way to play is by looking in the direction you want to move and using the controller based turn only when absolutely necessary. I was playing standing up and that worked well. Also the right thumbstick seems to toggle between fast and slow movement. Slow was completely comfortable where as fast - even without turning - induced motion sickness. All in all, slow movement plus head movements to turn and "VR turning" only when necessary made this a very comofrtable first person experience. Now I just need to learn how the hell to make it do stuff!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I suspect that most young people trying it will end up not recognizing the onset of motion sickness and ignore it until much too late (even some journalists seem to still be making this error.)

Actually kids seem to be pretty good about noticing the onset of nausea and take off the headsets before getting sick enough that they vomit.

http://techreport.com/review/30080/we-threw-a-minecraft-party-to-test-samsung-gear-vr-headset/4

A funny thing happened about ten minutes after I stopped recording the video above. The first kid took off his headset and handed it to me before we even reached the 30-minute mark. He said it was because he was feeling a little sick.

Better than some adults.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I suspect that most young people trying it will end up not recognizing the onset of motion sickness and ignore it until much too late.

Why? I've never known any kid who wasn't aware of feeling nauseous. They tend to be more sensitive to their own bodies before they've learnt to suppress natural instincts (they may not choose to act on it though, in the case of needing the loo!)

 

[hughJ]

When you reference the turning in the game, are you talking about the regular turning or what they define as "VR turning"? i.e. turning in chunks of set degrees rather than one fluid analogue movement? While a little jarring in terms of immersion, it does extremely well at eliminating the motion sickness IMO.

I mean turning by any other means than physically turning your head/body. Using the comfort turning mode (snapping in ~22deg increments or whatever) does reduce the chance of motion sickness, but as you say - it's jarring. Some people are fine with it, others aren't. Personally I find that I'd rather keep smooth turning, but using it responsibly. I can spin on an axis with analog stick and feel pretty okay, but if I do that while slowly looking up and down with my head I can only handle a few seconds of that. It's all about finding your limits with what particular things bother you most and finding ways to do them as little as possible. Even something as simple as an extended blink of your eyes while making your analog turn adjustments can make things much more comfortable.

Also the right thumbstick seems to toggle between fast and slow movement.

If you're talking about the walk/sneak toggle, this isn't really a viable way of walking around as it sticks you to the block height you're standing on (it's meant to be used for walking on ledges, etc where there's risk of falling off. It also hides your overhead name from other players when you're physically occluded from them, allowing you to hide.) If you need people to play with, I'm playing with a group of VR users that have a multiplayer realm and a Discord channel setup. A mixture of people that are experienced and brand new to Minecraft.

Why? I've never known any kid who wasn't aware of feeling nauseous. They tend to be more sensitive to their own bodies before they've learnt to suppress natural instincts (they may not choose to act on it though, in the case of needing the loo!)

The onset of motion sickness in VR seems to start very subtly in the face/head (a very mild flushed sensation) and isn't necessarily all that uncomfortable at first. The idea is to adjust how you're playing/moving the moment you recognize that you're feeling those symptoms so that you can avoid it translating to actual nausea. The natural inclination is to ignore this until it becomes legitimately uncomfortable and you have to stop, especially if you're doing an activity that you enjoy or already have some experience with outside of VR. Stopping before you throw up shouldn't be the goal, but rather moderating so you don't have to stop.

 

[wco81]

Interesting story about Palmer Luckey