PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[babcat]

Or maybe the people who want a 1000 $ console should just buy an xbox controller and stream to their TV from their PC. Nvidia doesnt have an X86 license so Sony would either have to break backwards compatibility and piss of a lot of people or go with an Intel CPU wich would dramatically bring up the price. Lets have some realistic expectations shall we

1,3x CPU boost, 2,3x GPU boost and 24% more bandwith for the same price as the original PS4 is exactly what should happen as a mid gen upgrade, decent improvement but still affordable. That gives them breathing room to launch a real next gen upgrade with PS5

A mid-cycle console like I describe wouldn't cost $1,000 dollars.

An upgrade in RAM might cost $50
An upgrade in CPU might cost $50
A better cooler and chassi design to allow the 480 to run at STOCK speed might cost $50.

Simply put, the whole upgrade might increase the price to $499 or a tad more which is PERFECTLY FINE considering how much people pay for other consumer electronics. The current PS4 NEO is simply a tiny bump that Sony is trying to sell as a huge improvement when really it is almost nothing!

If Sony did what I suggested, they could have a proper PS5 with a VEGA chip for about the same price in a year or so.

 

[babcat]

Ok, maybe not Premium but 'high end' (really - are we that pedantic?). We shall see, but really - 30% is not tiny and 2.5x is not small. Either way what prices do you suggest? Bear in mind the PS4 is $350 today so if they are to release price details in September what's your best guess?

My guess is that the PS4 Neo won't cost more for Sony to manufacture than the PS4. I think that is why the upgrade is so miniscule. However, when anything new is launched there is a period of time to make money off early adopters. I suggest they will charge $50 to $100 dollars extra even though there is no need to do so.

 

[babcat]

Pretty positive Sony is in the awkward position. Console in 2013 then 2016 and then another console in 2019/2020?
4K resolution requires 4x more power than 1080p. If 6TF gets a 1.3TF up to 4K. You would need > 16TF to get a 4.2TF quality graphics up to 4K.

You're not going to see that jump in 3 years from now at a reasonable TDP and price point. PS5 isn't going to be some massive generational switch unless we have fundamentally changed technology or have a break through somewhere. PS5 will be at best an improvement over Neo.

From GAF


http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1260081


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sony is in an incredible awkward position. The PS4 "NEO" is basically just a move to allow for 4K resolutions. But to do so consumes so much processing power it will make the already tiny graphical bump possible from only a doubling of FLOPS (remember there was a nearly 1,000% increase in FLOPS between PS3 and PS4) look almost non-existent.

Sony has two viable options, in my opinion.

First, cancel the NEO all together, wait a year or so, and come out with a PS5 at 10nm utilizing a massive upgrade.

Secondly, boost the specs of the NEO as high as they can even if it means a delay and delay the PS5 for a much longer time period. If they boost the specs to the NEO to the point where there is also a graphics boost in addition to 4K, it could have an extended lifespan (maybe even eight years). However, if they don't improve the specs there will be basically no graphical boost and the games will look basically like they do now. People will be demanding a PS5 much sooner.

I'd prefer the first option.

 

[Gitaroo]

Im thinking different, launch neo as what it was but with some kind of crossfire port ready, I know crossfire doesn't mean 200% jump in performance but even 50% efficient it already have more theoratical power than a scorpio, assuming there might even be some upclocking of the neo. As sony recommand dev to do 2x1080p but now you have 2neox2x1080p to make up 1 native 4k buffer. That way Player always have an option to take it a step further whenever they wanted to. Say neo launch at 400 this year and price drop to 350 next fall, people who bought neo a year ago will look at an additional 350 option for more powerful dual neo vs a maybe 500 scorpio. Entry price is more appealing to casual customers like how 360 were selling its core bundle and people upgrade the storage later. What is a faster way to sell your ps4? You sell people 2. Im not a tech guy but I assume its feasable now with all the dx12 type asyncruhous multi gpu rendering etc? They can mandate this in the neo approval if all new games can do 2x1080p.

 

[ultragpu]

With all the pc benchmarks I've seen lately it's really unreasonable to expect a 4-6tf console to run 4k game comfortably especially without i7 level CPU. It's really 980 ti territory and that's assuming a locked 30fps. I just hope Sony could focus on 1080p with maximum settings, steady framerate and perhaps extra "Neo visual works" this time. They know they can't compete with PCs for 4k gaming so why not just leave it at a res it can comfortably hang with while adding exclusive graphical effects, this imo would result a much stark attraction while retaining its own uniqueness. As long as 3rd party devs agree to it of course.

 

[MrFox]

Here we go again.

 

[Rangers]

September 7 reveal isn't good for anybody hoping to outpower Scorpio. Will be locked down very soon with that quick timetable.

 

[Rangers]

Sony is in an incredible awkward position. The PS4 "NEO" is basically just a move to allow for 4K resolutions. But to do so consumes so much processing power it will make the already tiny graphical bump possible from only a doubling of FLOPS (remember there was a nearly 1,000% increase in FLOPS between PS3 and PS4) look almost non-existent.

Sony has two viable options, in my opinion.

First, cancel the NEO all together, wait a year or so, and come out with a PS5 at 10nm utilizing a massive upgrade.

Secondly, boost the specs of the NEO as high as they can even if it means a delay and delay the PS5 for a much longer time period. If they boost the specs to the NEO to the point where there is also a graphics boost in addition to 4K, it could have an extended lifespan (maybe even eight years). However, if they don't improve the specs there will be basically no graphical boost and the games will look basically like they do now. People will be demanding a PS5 much sooner.

I'd prefer the first option.

4.2 is a tweener for sure in reference to 4k. Scorpio just barely has enough to do current graphics at 4k if you just multiply FLOPS (regardless whether that will be how the power is actually used in practice, I'll be on record stating no way). Neo is a non starter there.

It's kinda weird. Clearly Sony just wanted something quick, dirty, and incremental. Scorpio just stole all their thunder and now Neo feels like an afterthought or a not good enough.

 

[BRiT]

Here we go again.

It's Reach all over again!

 

[Megadrive1988]

Im thinking different, launch neo as what it was but with some kind of crossfire port ready, I know crossfire doesn't mean 200% jump in performance but even 50% efficient it already have more theoratical power than a scorpio, assuming there might even be some upclocking of the neo. As sony recommand dev to do 2x1080p but now you have 2neox2x1080p to make up 1 native 4k buffer. That way Player always have an option to take it a step further whenever they wanted to. Say neo launch at 400 this year and price drop to 350 next fall, people who bought neo a year ago will look at an additional 350 option for more powerful dual neo vs a maybe 500 scorpio. Entry price is more appealing to casual customers like how 360 were selling its core bundle and people upgrade the storage later. What is a faster way to sell your ps4? You sell people 2. Im not a tech guy but I assume its feasable now with all the dx12 type asyncruhous multi gpu rendering etc? They can mandate this in the neo approval if all new games can do 2x1080p.

Let me get this straight, I buy the Neo which is an upgraded PS4, and then I add on an external graphics card to boost performance further so I might get native 4K resolution in PS4 games.

Yeah, not happening.

 

[bunge]

September 7 reveal isn't good for anybody hoping to outpower Scorpio. Will be locked down very soon with that quick timetable.

Did anyone expect the PS4 to "outpower" Scorpio?

 

[Gitaroo]

Let me get this straight, I buy the Neo which is an upgraded PS4, and then I add on an external graphics card to boost performance further so I might get native 4K resolution in PS4 games.

Yeah, not happening.

people don't get the meaning on "optional", as I said, entry price is low to get people to take the first step, what happen after that is up to the player. You don't care doesn't mean others won, this obviously only targeted at people that are willing to pay more for more power no matter the price which is basically what Scorpio is all about, you are clearly not the audience. I am only assuming Sony can get this work very seamlessly by just connecting 2 systems together as AMD been telling people to get 2 480 which is cheaper than a single 1080 and faster kind of situation. In this case 2 neo may not be cheaper than 1 scorpio but it offers full native 4K gaming if that is what one desire.

 

[Rangers]

Did anyone expect the PS4 to "outpower" Scorpio?

Some people appear to be believing in/hoping for some sort of spec increase, definitely. There's a Neogaf thread on it, reported by Patrick Klepeck who claims he heard Sony was looking at bumping the specs.

An earlier release date doesn't rule that out, but it does diminish the chances of major architecture changes such as significantly more CU's, if there were any.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Some people appear to be believing in/hoping for some sort of spec increase, definitely. There's a Neogaf thread on it, reported by Patrick Klepeck who claims he heard Sony was looking at bumping the specs.

An earlier release date doesn't rule that out, but it does diminish the chances of major architecture changes such as significantly more CU's, if there were any.

Nobody was talking about outperforming a console releasing a year later, neither a change in arquitecture when devkits have already been shipped. Bump in frequency or a bit of more ram at most.

 

[Phil]

The sad thing is: Neo nor Scorprio would have happened if both the Xbox One and PS4 had been on equal ground sales wise. Because Microsoft got it wrong and PS4 is pulling away as much as it is; Microsoft is faced with the situation that they must bring out something that is better to not lose too much image wise. Meanwhile, Sony is also forced to counter that, or else they could be left behind.

I still think these two upgrades are bad for the market as a whole and as pretty much an early adopter on all my consoles so far (sans PS3 because of the HD transition), I am not even sure I'll get the Neo in whatever form it launches. I'm just that happy with my PS4. :/

 

[goonergaz]

Halo 5, Sunset Overdrive ?

wow, so 2 whole exclusives to counter my 'lack of true exclusives' comment...consider me converted.

My guess is that the PS4 Neo won't cost more for Sony to manufacture than the PS4. I think that is why the upgrade is so miniscule. However, when anything new is launched there is a period of time to make money off early adopters. I suggest they will charge $50 to $100 dollars extra even though there is no need to do so.

Well it would be stupid to sell a 2.5x more powerful machine for the same cost 'because they can' - there is no need to drop the PS4 price as it's selling well (why throw away money) so I think my guess of a $50 drop is fair and the minimum difference to Neo will be $100 but I'm betting higher because I'd like to be wrong

 

[goonergaz]

The sad thing is: Neo nor Scorprio would have happened if both the Xbox One and PS4 had been on equal ground sales wise. Because Microsoft got it wrong and PS4 is pulling away as much as it is; Microsoft is faced with the situation that they must bring out something that is better to not lose too much image wise. Meanwhile, Sony is also forced to counter that, or else they could be left behind.

I still think these two upgrades are bad for the market as a whole and as pretty much an early adopter on all my consoles so far (sans PS3 because of the HD transition), I am not even sure I'll get the Neo in whatever form it launches. I'm just that happy with my PS4. :/

I don't think Neo has anything to do with Scorpio - it seems PS4 is barely enough for PSVR (or at least Sonys vision) so Neo gives it that extra boost. What I will say is that the issue this gen has been the CPU, I always said it would be a shorter gen due to the CPUs - I can't believe Sony are not addressing this (altho a 30% boost in speed is better than a kick up the backside!)

 

[Rikimaru]

The sad thing is: Neo nor Scorprio would have happened if both the Xbox One and PS4 had been on equal ground sales wise. Because Microsoft got it wrong and PS4 is pulling away as much as it is; Microsoft is faced with the situation that they must bring out something that is better to not lose too much image wise. Meanwhile, Sony is also forced to counter that, or else they could be left behind.

That's absolutely wrong.
Sony has been working on upgraded PS4 for a long time.
Sony have not been looking at competitors strategy much this gen. On other hand MS copied everything from PS4. Even early Win10 dash looked much more like ps4 dynamic menu.

And Xbox does not stand a chance to be on equal ground sales wise unless Sony screws up badly (unlikely), or MS comes with new disruptive tech or large catalogue of hit games (very unlikely).

 

[goonergaz]

That's absolutely wrong.
Sony has been working on upgraded PS4 for a long time.
Sony have not been looking at competitors strategy much this gen. On other hand MS copied everything from PS4. Even early Win10 dash looked much more like ps4 dynamic menu.

And Xbox does not stand a chance to be on equal ground sales wise unless Sony screws up badly (unlikely), or MS comes with new disruptive tech or large catalogue of hit games (very unlikely).

Yes, it's like a reversal of last gen. Also, Sony seem to be trying really hard not to mess up - apparently a more powerful Neo was available but it would have pushed up the price to PS3 launch levels

 

[Jubei]

A mid-cycle console like I describe wouldn't cost $1,000 dollars.

An upgrade in RAM might cost $50
An upgrade in CPU might cost $50
A better cooler and chassi design to allow the 480 to run at STOCK speed might cost $50.

Simply put, the whole upgrade might increase the price to $499 or a tad more which is PERFECTLY FINE considering how much people pay for other consumer electronics. The current PS4 NEO is simply a tiny bump that Sony is trying to sell as a huge improvement when really it is almost nothing!

If Sony did what I suggested, they could have a proper PS5 with a VEGA chip for about the same price in a year or so.

So why is Microsoft releasing a console with your spec sheet in Q4 next year? I mean according to you we could have that for 499$ this year?

PS4 was also bashed for being underpowered and a weak next gen upgrade but somehow its the best selling Sony console of all time. Clearly the vocal minority is not the same as the silent majority

But hopefully Valve or some other company will solve your hardware dilemma