Middle Generation Console Upgrade Discussion [Scorpio, 4Pro]

[MrFox]

I think that no memory amounts were given also meant that memory type is undecided. GDDR5 would mean 12GB.

You can also get 320GB/S with GDDR5x or DDR4 + HBM2.

They unveiled scorpio showing the board having 384 bits of GDDR5, and a single SoC. What could they possibly gain from such a misdirection?

The board has all the details necessary, we can even see the idiosyncrasies in the power regulation similar to XB1. (whether XB1S have those too will be even more interesting)

 

[Proelite]

They unveiled scorpio showing the board having 384 bits of GDDR5, and a single SoC. What could they possibly gain from such a misdirection?

The board has all the details necessary, we can even see the idiosyncrasies in the power regulation similar to XB1. (whether XB1S have those too will be even more interesting)

In that case, they're waiting on to see if they can get 24GB of GDDR5? They could have thrown out the 12GB of GDDR5 there at E3.

The board also has a SOC exactly 363mm2, the size of the XB1 SOC. It's a mockup.

 

[eastmen]

It's relatively low for the resolution. If we think 150 GB/s is enough for 1080p (current consoles), linear scaling would suggest 600 GB/s is needed for the same fidelity at 4k (which I'm going to call 2160p from now on because it's more accurate and a comparative term). DF have an article on a 2160p GPU, the Titan 1080 GTX, which is 320 GB/s uncontested VRAM, with additional CPU bandwidth of DDR main RAM.

So Scorpio, and very much more Neo, are low on BW for 2160p rendering, similar to PS3 being relatively low for 1080p rendering. I think that's a fair assertion.

The rx 480 seems to be doing good with 256GB of bandwidth

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10446/the-amd-radeon-rx-480-preview/4

That's a 32Rop 144 texture unit , 36 CU , 256GB bandwidth part based on Polaris . Its pretty close to a 60FPS experience that is better than what consoles are putting out right now at 1080p

Double the units avalible , add in another 100GB of bandwidth plus improvements from vega in the memory compression tech and they should be able to hit 60fps at 4k Of course they may even get faster memory and be at 400GB or more

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's some funky maths! Average framerate there is around 45 fps at 1440p. 2160p is twice the pixels. Double up on everything and you should hit 2160p45, requiring another 33% for a solid 60 fps (or toning down visuals - 60 fps is possible on any console as long as you target the visuals to fit).

 

[AlNom]

The board also has a SOC exactly 363mm2, the size of the XB1 SOC. It's a mockup.

They're actually just unlocking the stacked APU.

Compatibility was there all along!

 

[MrFox]

They're actually just unlocking the stacked APU.

Compatibility was there all along!

Combine the rumored 3 stacked SOC, and the overclock to 1333Mhz.... it's exactly 6TF

 

[AlNom]

I thought it was 4stack for 128MB esram.

 

[Cyan]

Lisa Su has talked about Scorpio. She said that given the performance level we can imagine there is something more on the chip, but she can't say more about that.

http://techfrag.com/2016/07/22/microsoft-project-scorpio-xbox-one-amd/

“Last Quarter at E3, Microsoft announced two new members of the Xbox One family, powered by AMD. The Xbox One S is the slimmest Xbox console ever, and the first to support HDR. The system is expected to go on sales in the coming weeks.


Microsoft also announced their next-generation game console code named Project Scorpio for the 2017 holidays. Project Scorpio is designed to be fully compatible with existing Xbox One software, while leveraging AMD leadership gaming technology to create more immersive 4K and VR gaming experiences. Project Scorpio is one of the semi-custom design wins we communicated previously”

“We wouldn’t disclose anything that’s incrementally more than what our customer has disclosed, so I think Microsoft has talked about their goals with Project Scorpio; I think we are in support of those goals. Given the performance level, you would imagine that there is more capability on chip, but I wouldn’t want to go more than that.”

 

[Deleted member 11852]

"I think we are in support of those goals"

What a weird thing to say.

 

[GamingMan]

I just think she is phrasing it weirdly because she really doesn't want to give anything away.

1, 'I think we are in support of those goals' = We support Microsoft's goal of native 4K and VR.

2, 'Given the performance level, you would imagine that there is more capability on chip' = Given the stated 6TF, the chip is above our own RX 480.

 

[goonergaz]

secret sauce confirmed, mrx will be happy!

 

[Pixel]

Certainly it will have more capabilities than the xbox one gpu its not a southern island chip with 4x the alu performance. You have the capabilties of added color compression, primitive discard accelerator, instruction prefetch, hardware scheduler, and improved shader efficiency vs current consoles. Its not jusdt additional alu * frequency bump to 6tflops.

 

[Nights]

2, 'Given the performance level, you would imagine that there is more capability on chip' = Given the stated 6TF, the chip is above our own RX 480.

Wouldn't the following....... 'Given the performance level, you would imagine that there is more cpu capability on chip' make the most sense.

 

[iroboto]

Wouldn't the following....... 'Given the performance level, you would imagine that there is more cpu capability on chip' make the most sense.

they only want to divulge as much as MS has divulged. Which are GPU FLOPS, number of cores, bandwidth.
Actuals around clock speed, how much memory, and architecture are likely under wraps until next year.

 

[fehu]

Thinking about zen...
Vega will be designed for tsmc, zen instead for glofo.
I can't see amd doing two times all the work for zen only to integrate it in scorpio.
So what? a puma based sabretooth++ core?

 

[AlNom]

How do you know Vega is TSMC?

 

[fehu]

Wasn't confirmed?
I remember a lot of talk about how much will be clocked vega due to the different process optimized for speed and not efficiency at low clocks

 

[Michellstar]

There are ZEN apus coming, for desktop and that HPC MCM who got leaked, i mean it´s a work that AMD has to make no matter what, with a semi-custom design can share and save part of the R&D

 

[BRiT]

Wasn't confirmed?
I remember a lot of talk about how much will be clocked vega due to the different process optimized for speed and not efficiency at low clocks

Not confirmed to be TSMC, or GloFlo, or Samsung. But the thoughts were they could use something other than GloFlo if they meet their WSA (waffer supply aggrement).

However it was confirmed that AMD can use Samsung 14nm fabrication instead of GloFlo without penalty towards the WSA under certain conditions.

 

[dobwal]

Thinking about zen...
Vega will be designed for tsmc, zen instead for glofo.
I can't see amd doing two times all the work for zen only to integrate it in scorpio.
So what? a puma based sabretooth++ core?

AMD will do as much work as needed as long as MS is willing to finance that work. I'd bet AMD would produce an apu based on a totally novel design if MS was willing to foot the bill.

Doing two times the work to source two different manufacturers for ultimately the same product is not the same as someone else paying you to source a different manufacturer to produce a product for them on their dime.