Game music technologies

Exophase

Veteran
Why do some people refer to all sequenced music as MIDI? Makes me think the music will sound like passport.mid.
 
The sound quality and characteristics of midi playback varies hugely depending on the quality of the midi playback device and what samples and what quality of samples are used. You probably know that, but just stating it for people that might not know. :)

With a good device and excellent sample choice and quality of samples, it can sound almost orchestral.

Regards,
SB
 
The sound quality and characteristics of midi playback varies hugely depending on the quality of the midi playback device and what samples and what quality of samples are used. You probably know that, but just stating it for people that might not know. :)

With a good device and excellent sample choice and quality of samples, it can sound almost orchestral.

Yes, but sequenced music for PS1 or 3DS games doesn't have that characteristic at all, they use fixed instrument samples that are part of the game, not ones that are dependent on the user's system. Which is why "MIDI" is probably not a good descriptor, even if used loosely.

More on topic.. the only DQ game I've played much of was DQ8, which I got bored of halfway through. But the music in that game always struck me as out of place and overly grandiose (while not actually being that interesting). It seemed obvious that the soundtrack was remixed for orchestration after the fact; I've heard some really good orchestrated soundtracks but they benefited from being composed with orchestras in mind. I get the feeling that I would have preferred the original non-symphonic soundtrack and there's a good chance that'd apply for this game as well.
 
Yes, but sequenced music for PS1 or 3DS games doesn't have that characteristic at all, they use fixed instrument samples that are part of the game, not ones that are dependent on the user's system. Which is why "MIDI" is probably not a good descriptor, even if used loosely.
It is though. MIDI is used for almost everything in music. Sure you can use your samples, like in the case or PS1 or 3DS games, not necessarily General MIDI 1 or General MIDI 2, GS.. But once you have the samples in your game, you use MIDI to tell which note and instrument should be sounding,volume, reverb, chorus, etc etc.

Doom 64 for the Nintendo 64 uses MIDI music and sound, the MIDIs can be ripped from the ROM, it's the samples that MIDI uses what does change, so if you have good samples and a decent synth or sound chip, it will sound good, if not it won't sound as good. (say Roland SD-50 vs Sounblaster 16 FM chip)
 
It is though. MIDI is used for almost everything in music. Sure you can use your samples, like in the case or PS1 or 3DS games, not necessarily General MIDI 1 or General MIDI 2, GS.. But once you have the samples in your game, you use MIDI to tell which note and instrument should be sounding,volume, reverb, chorus, etc etc.

Doom 64 for the Nintendo 64 uses MIDI music and sound, the MIDIs can be ripped from the ROM, it's the samples that MIDI uses what does change, so if you have good samples and a decent synth or sound chip, it will sound good, if not it won't sound as good. (say Roland SD-50 vs Sounblaster 16 FM chip)

MIDI is a particular set of standards, and just because one console game used it doesn't mean that it was commonly used. Particularly since the game was a port of a PC game from an era where MIDI was relatively common.

There are many other formats and protocols that can be used to define sequenced music that aren't MIDI and don't have the same limitations.
 
A LOT of console games that used real time synthesised music, did use MIDI.
 
It is though. MIDI is used for almost everything in music. Sure you can use your samples, like in the case or PS1 or 3DS games, not necessarily General MIDI 1 or General MIDI 2, GS.. But once you have the samples in your game, you use MIDI to tell which note and instrument should be sounding,volume, reverb, chorus, etc etc.
You're muddling terms here. MIDI is a cross-music communication protocol. It features in General MIDI soundbanks loaded in hardware in devices. That's what 'MIDI music' means, and what I've always understood you to mean when you talked about loving MIDI (and wondering why! General MIDI music banks tend to sound horribly fake). What you're talking about here is squenced music, or tracker music, or MODs as they were called on the Amiga, where you supply samples and play them back in sequence. There's definitely scope for MODs still in mobile games. mp3 soundtracks are hideously inefficient for a lot fo the musical requirements of games. For console titles though, you want decent audio hardware and/or an orchestra to get the quality of sound that makes the audio, and game, feel significant. Nothing bites quite like General MIDI strings trying to carry some deep emotion - makes everything sounds like cheap kids TV.
 
Well, the term is muddy by nature. I've seen developers refer to real time sequenced music as MIDI (and indeed use MIDI files internally to represent it) a multitude of times.
 
MIDI is a particular set of standards, and just because one console game used it doesn't mean that it was commonly used. Particularly since the game was a port of a PC game from an era where MIDI was relatively common.

There are many other formats and protocols that can be used to define sequenced music that aren't MIDI and don't have the same limitations.
Actually, there isn't a single music format I know of which is as flexible and powerful as MIDI.

As Silent_Buddha said, the sound depends on your synth, or samples, but what you can do with that sound is above anything else when it comes to possibilities, and all of that in real time. I have a Roland SD-50 at home, which I love to death, although I'd like to have the most sophisticated MIDI synth out there from Roland, but my money doesn't permit..., and it has that peculiar and unique sound to it --better or worse, it's a matter of tastes.

I am on a slow connection -tethering, no data- so I can't share youtube videos or load them. But listen to Roland Integra-7 Supernatural Sound...it's all MIDI, then tell me what you think. It even features General MIDI 2 bank instruments...

You're muddling terms here. MIDI is a cross-music communication protocol. It features in General MIDI soundbanks loaded in hardware in devices. That's what 'MIDI music' means, and what I've always understood you to mean when you talked about loving MIDI (and wondering why! General MIDI music banks tend to sound horribly fake). What you're talking about here is squenced music, or tracker music, or MODs as they were called on the Amiga, where you supply samples and play them back in sequence. There's definitely scope for MODs still in mobile games. mp3 soundtracks are hideously inefficient for a lot fo the musical requirements of games. For console titles though, you want decent audio hardware and/or an orchestra to get the quality of sound that makes the audio, and game, feel significant. Nothing bites quite like General MIDI strings trying to carry some deep emotion - makes everything sounds like cheap kids TV.
MIDI is much more than that. I've been using MIDI almost my entire life. You can play music, turns lights on and off..control an entire orchestra, or having it taking so little memory and launch the logo of a console with its sound (like in the original Xbox, which used a very small sound sample and a MIDI file for the sound to go with the Xbox logo)...it is more like a director.

MODs and S3Ms and stuff like that, of course are fine, but it's not MIDI. First of all, MODs, S3Ms and similar formats are a simple file which has everything inside, and NEED external software. MIDI isn't sound. It produces no sound, it just tells a synth which sounds it has to play and gives the orders, it's a director.

With MIDI you can have a single sample from a single note and "calculate" the entire notation of an instrument -of course, not as accurately as the real thing, the more accuracy you want the more samples from individual notes you need from an instrument-.

You can have a 5KB MIDI file and it can sound like orchestrated music in the city of Viena, if you have a great synth, or sound like a barrel organ or a Master System. Classic games used MIDI a lot, because the files are so small on memory, and are so flexible that you can make a song sound entirely different with the same sample.

Using MIDI you can transpose notes, increase or decrease the tempo, change the pitch bend, the panning, reverb, chorus, instrument, drums, everything! in real time, so you use the same samples, very little memory and have the flexibility MP3 or CD music can never produce. Nor MODs and S3M for that matter.

Additionally, if you play an instrument in real life and can connect it to, say, a synth like the Roland SD-50 (or a Yamaha's, etc), you can play a song at home using your guitar, flute or whatever, and make a MIDI file from it. The synth is going to create a MIDI file which tells MIDI players and synths what to play and when, that is, the exact notes you played.

So...if you have a soundbank which is an exact copy of your real life instrument, it will sound like your real life instrument. If you have a Roland SD-50, the synth is going to play Roland's interpretation from you real life instrument in that synth --the flute, the distortion guitar, whatever you have and used, Roland's version.

That's what makes MIDI so charming and nice, because you can have the same file and get the SNES sound from it, or the Roland sound, or Yamaha's sound, NES sound, etc etc.
 
Actually, there isn't a single music format I know of which is as flexible and powerful as MIDI.

You mean, this format? http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/MIDI/chapter3_MIDI4.shtml

16 channels, 128 keys, 128 velocities, etc, not an awful lot of effect commands.. it doesn't take a lot of imagination to envision something more flexible and allowing more direct access to a particular sequencer's hardware capabilities. Sure, you can still make amazing sounding music with it, especially if there are no real limits on how large your samples can be. And maybe a lot more is captured by extensions, but I guess that kind of blurs the line of exactly what we're talking about.

Maybe Dragon Quest 7 did use MIDI files, I don't really know. I just know that a lot of people use MIDI as a generic term for any music that's sequenced and that's not correct, there were certainly a lot of other formats in use.
 
Conker Bad Fur day on n64 used MIDI for its amazingly organic sounding sound track, and they overcame the channel limit by playing back more than one file at a time. They also used the MIDI data to control character's animations when it was supposed to sinc with the music (but did a unfortumately poor job though)
 
Also, isn't it a good time to make a spin off thread about midi and other sequencing technology to move these posts to? Might atract more people with new insight on the whole matter.
 
Also, isn't it a good time to make a spin off thread about midi and other sequencing technology to move these posts to? Might atract more people with new insight on the whole matter.
I propose: ancient sound techologies we're glad are dead.

I give it ten minutes before somebody posts that vinyl sounds better. :yep2:
 
You mean, this format? http://www.indiana.edu/~emusic/etext/MIDI/chapter3_MIDI4.shtml

16 channels, 128 keys, 128 velocities, etc, not an awful lot of effect commands.. it doesn't take a lot of imagination to envision something more flexible and allowing more direct access to a particular sequencer's hardware capabilities. Sure, you can still make amazing sounding music with it, especially if there are no real limits on how large your samples can be. And maybe a lot more is captured by extensions, but I guess that kind of blurs the line of exactly what we're talking about.

Maybe Dragon Quest 7 did use MIDI files, I don't really know. I just know that a lot of people use MIDI as a generic term for any music that's sequenced and that's not correct, there were certainly a lot of other formats in use.
MIDI has so many variables and commands, it's not just "not a awful lot", it is an awful lot of them. 128 keys... how would you want more? No instrument can go over that number of notes -in fact they use and need a lot less across all octaves-, they would be simply too low or two high or a note would become a loop at some point after certain frequencies.

128 velocities...aren't you confusing it with tempos? Because velocities are more like layers to enrich the sound of a particular instrument, and each layer represents how hard you press a key in real life. Say you play a note applying the max pressure that certain key of your piano can handle, the velocity of that key is going to be 128..

Access to a particular sequencer's hardware capabilities exists, and it's called SysEx (system exclusive messages, sent into hexadecimal to your hardware synth to apply a particular effect).

16 channels, you are right. It's not that much, apparently. But there is more to it, you can have thousands of tracks, as long as you use them within those 16 channels. You can overcome that limitation easily. Think of your favourite band, or Michael Jackson.., how many instruments are playing at the same time?...it's obvious it's a lot less than 16.

In addition, you can always use program changes in real time, and have thousands of them if you want to. Meaning that you are playing a Distortion Guitar in the channel 1, and you switch it to a Piccolo with a program change, then in the same channel 1 you can play the Distortion Guitar again when necessary using another program change.

You can also switch channels in a single track, using MIDI commands. In the end, that's why they take so little space, it's not sound nor notes, it's just simply a series of commands saying a hardware or software synth how, when and what to play and then the synth obeys.

I propose: ancient sound techologies we're glad are dead.

I give it ten minutes before somebody posts that vinyl sounds better. :yep2:
ancient? Modern music is basically almost all MIDI --except live performance, and a live performance can be transformed into a MIDI so easily. It's the samples and the after effects that change the music.

An accurate MIDI of let's say, a Scooter song, is exactly the same song as Scooter's, without the professional sound production behind it -equalisation, chorus, reverb, filtering, etc etc etc etc-, where you get the final result via audio CD, MP3, iTunes, and so on and so forth.

I am a hobbyist in that regard, I want o become a programmer (got the best grades in my class during my first year of computer science, 9,2 average this 2015-16 year, but most of all I also got access to superior education via difficult general culture -maths, language, physics, technology, history- exam I had to pass June 20th, where I got the best grades out of other 712 people in my autonomous region who completed that exam, with a 9,25, so I can study programming the next year) but as I said I've been fascinated by MIDI and used it almost my entire life.
 
Last edited:
ancient? Modern music is basically almost all MIDI --except live performance, and a live performance can be transformed into a MIDI so easily. It's the samples and the after effects that change the music.
We still use the fire and the wheel. Also ancient.
 
I am a hobbyist in that regard, I want o become a programmer (got the best grades in my class during my first year of computer science, 9,2 average this 2015-16 year, but most of all I also got access to superior education via difficult general culture -maths, language, physics, technology, history- exam I had to pass June 20th, where I got the best grades out of other 712 people in my autonomous region who completed that exam, with a 9,25, so I can study programming the next year) but as I said I've been fascinated by MIDI and used it almost my entire life.

Welcome back Cyan, I have missed your ramblings and I am terrified to work with any code you will write.
 
Welcome back Cyan, I have missed your ramblings and I am terrified to work with any code you will write.
thanks, actually I'm as terrified, if not more. It's a couple of months away, so let's just keep up with the dress code for now.
 
MIDI is much more than that.
It's a communications protocol.
With MIDI you can have a single sample from a single note and "calculate" the entire notation of an instrument
That's what MODs do. In all these synthetic solutions (regarding game music, and not music production which can use software synths), you are playing one or more samples at a given pitch. You can use one sample for the entire range of playback, or multiple samples for different ranges of pitch.

Using MIDI you can transpose notes, increase or decrease the tempo, change the pitch bend, the panning, reverb, chorus, instrument, drums, everything! in real time, so you use the same samples, very little memory and have the flexibility MP3 or CD music can never produce. Nor MODs and S3M for that matter.
MODs can transpose, change tempo, pitch bend, pan, change instrument, etc. A MIDI song consists of a list of instructions to play a sound at a given pitch at a given time, with some other instructions. A MOD is exactly the same, running a linear list of instructions of whatever sample at whatever time.

Additionally, if you play an instrument in real life and can connect it to, say, a synth like the Roland SD-50 (or a Yamaha's, etc), you can play a song at home using your guitar, flute or whatever, and make a MIDI file from it. The synth is going to create a MIDI file which tells MIDI players and synths what to play and when, that is, the exact notes you played.
You're going outside the scope of talking about MIDI music in games. In games, MIDI music as you call it is a list of 'play this instrument' instructions, normally associated with internal soundbanks AFAIK (certainly on mobile devices) or with a preloaded sample bank. MODs are exactly the same.

That's what makes MIDI so charming and nice, because you can have the same file and get the SNES sound from it, or the Roland sound, or Yamaha's sound, NES sound, etc etc.
Yes, that's true, but that's not really what's happening when you're talking about loving MIDI music in games. DQ VII doesn't let you run the MIDI output through your own instruments, does it?
 
Back
Top