Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)
- Thread starter mpg1
- Start date
500.
That's 500GB for $350. We can't do this for days if we don't do it right the first day.
Competition is healthy for the consumers. MS is partly the reason we have the PS4 and Sony is partly the reason MS went from trying to please TV and mainstream customers to its hardcore gaming base again. Right now Sony is slacking a bit with OS updates, hopefully Scorpio lights a fire under their ass
Sony is selling it for 350 because people are buying it for 350. You think MS lowered prices out of the goodness of their hearts?
sniffy
Newcomer
Sony isn't so much slacking with OS updates as MS is shovelling half working updates out as fast as they can. Xbox One has to the have the most unreliable glitchy OS in console history. It says a lot that almost three years later you still can't leave an always on console always on without the user experience slowly breaking down until reboot. PS4 UI may be simple and less feature complete but it does the job reliably.
Last gen we saw that once released Sony outsold MS when it was launched on all months except over Christmas but yearly it sold more - and that was with a completely screwed up launch, bad OS, much more expensive (etc)
Come on, if the rumors are true Sony are using largely PS4 components whereas MS are using new tech so it's likely a cheaper option and it'll be a very nice upgrade (ever upgraded a GPU to 2x on a PC?)
Not really, simple logic would suggest that a ~2x powerful machine will cost less than a ~4x powerful machine...it's not rocket science unless MS want to make a loss but the XBOs suggests that's not the case.
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I'd also add that IF Sony release Neo within ~6mths as has been suggested then they will have ~1 year of a substantially more powerful console that is ~3x the XBO, if people are so hung up on getting the best version they would buy that and enjoy a year of the best version until Scorpio is released and then switch to that for a couple years until next gen.
Let's face it, this gen the die is cast - if Neo get's a head-start on Scorpio and Scorpio is more expensive (which seems a very likely scenario) then I'm really not sure what MS will gain other than holding onto those X360 owners who have yet to jump to next gen (small market) or the current XBO owners who want to upgrade (smallish market). Sony OTOH have both those markets, one of which is 2x bigger and a likely head-start and price advantage.
Stock clearance ahead of the S must also play some part.
Interesting, most of the commentary seems focused around, Neo being cheaper, faster to market, better games etc. These are all topics on how Sony beats MS. None of the commentary touches on how Neo is or isn’t a great product for Sony’s existing customer base in which I see Neo as terrible product for their line. Sony’s lack of communication is a red flag to any consumer as Sony is usually very strong with their communication plans. Neo’s specifications are generous for a mid-level upgrade except Microsoft’s bold move to skip a level straight to 6TF makes Neo appear woefully out of place. Lastly, their continued drive to release Neo delays any chance of PS5 arriving sooner. These three factors combined are proof that Neo is hard to market and it is in my opinion that Sony’s best move is to delay/cancel Neo entirely and just make it into PS5.
Sony has been purposefully quiet about Neo and is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place about how to communicate Neo itself; their hype filled E3 Experience with a live orchestra fell flat with a missing Neo ending to their presentation. Before E3 they announced Neo in a fashion less spectacularly than Nintendo; yes, I’m talking about the executives confirming Neo’s existence and launch this year during an interview, but failed to show it at an official announcement because the games weren’t ready to show it. This is from a market leader with a global market lead of massive proportions failing to deliver an announcement on the biggest stage of gaming. The response from Sony was, “I didn’t expect MS to announce Scorpio so well in advance (18 mo), we didn’t announce Neo because the games aren’t ready yet [for Neo]”.
Imagine a smart layman who understands resolution and framerate. There are only 2 types of TVs I can own today, 1080p and 4K. That person can either own a PS4, or want to buy into Sony. Neo is released and it costs more than PS4. What questions would that layman ask?
Q: So why would I buy Neo it costs way more than PS4.
A: Games will look better on Neo, and have a 1080p minimal resolution requirement, games will look better on Neo, and some games might have better frame rate.
Q: Okay, so PS4 does 1080p for almost all titles already, so that’s not a big difference to me. And if this device can’t do 4K, explain to me how games will look better, and will all games have better frame rate?
A: Well, I need to show you the games running side by side PS4 vs Neo to show you how games look better, and frame rate will depend on the game, so I can’t tell you exactly today which games will have higher frame rates.
Q: So is this device for PSVR? Because you said that all games for PSVR run 60 and works perfectly for PS4.
A: Neo will run all games in 1080/60 in PSVR. But so does PS4. But Neo games will look better, once again, we’ll need to show you the two games running side by side.
And there is the inherent problem. In order to justify Neo’s worth, you need to run it side by side to PS4. Just think about what a disaster that is for their marketing department; how BAD would it be if your audience you are selling it to are having issues seeing the differences in quality between a Neo and PS4 title. So there better be a noticeable difference between how games look on PS4 and Neo right? Of course there will have to be, or you would just buy a PS4. Let’s not even dive into discussion of whether Sony should start looking at whether the gap between the Neo and PS4 version of a title is large enough during certification.
Neo is not in trouble because Scorpio is a MS product, Neo is in trouble because Scorpio will exist within 12 months of Neo’s launch. If Scorpio did not exist, no one would know that a 4K native console device could actually be available in holiday 2017. Everyone would have taken it for granted that greater than 2x the PS4s power would be the norm for the next console gen. 1.5 or whatever you want to call it. It’s entirely possible that Sony expected MS to follow suit.
The rebuttal that when PS5 comes it will crush Scorpio is pointless, because that’s not what Sony is actually worried about. The issue is that Sony will take 2 generations of hardware to get to 4K native when their competitor will do it in 1, and there is no messaging or communication you can wrap around that to make that sound good to your existing customer base. If you’re a Sony fan you’re going to wait a long time for 4K native, let me explain.
Let’s look at the product release timeline with pricing:
PS3 2006 - high fidelity gaming; $499/$599
PS4 2013 - HD gaming 1080p; $399
Neo 2016 - 1080p 2x better looking HD gaming; $499?
PS5 2019 - 4K UHD gaming ?? $499??
So if that schedule looks way too tight and likely to blow up your good will with your customers the simple answer is to delay PS5; and there it is, you’re going to wait a long time for 4K native.
As someone who owns a launch PS4, you’ve got to be thinking, 6 years is a long wait for 4K UHD, those guys at MS have 4k UHD native gaming in 2017 (4 years). I’m going to have to use my launch PS4 for at least 6 years to get it, likely we’re looking at 7-8 years. And if you were a sucker to buy Neo, in a short time frame after you’d be asked to buy into PS5 to get that 4K experience.
Neo is a mistake and Sony has not done their customer base any favours. Games will have to look significantly better than PS4 to be able to justify it’s own worth, and it also pushes out PS5 and 4K because you don’t want to launch 3 consoles in < 10 years.
In my perspective, Neo is simply a fan service device whose core purchasers are members with high dispose income that are Sony through and through. It’s actually a really bad device for Sony customers given the politics that surround it. Neo unfortunately became a reality when it was leaked and MS announced their Scorpio to be released 18 months from today. If Neo was never leaked, it’s possible Sony could have went back to the drawing board entirely.
Sony has been purposefully quiet about Neo and is currently stuck between a rock and a hard place about how to communicate Neo itself; their hype filled E3 Experience with a live orchestra fell flat with a missing Neo ending to their presentation. Before E3 they announced Neo in a fashion less spectacularly than Nintendo; yes, I’m talking about the executives confirming Neo’s existence and launch this year during an interview, but failed to show it at an official announcement because the games weren’t ready to show it. This is from a market leader with a global market lead of massive proportions failing to deliver an announcement on the biggest stage of gaming. The response from Sony was, “I didn’t expect MS to announce Scorpio so well in advance (18 mo), we didn’t announce Neo because the games aren’t ready yet [for Neo]”.
Imagine a smart layman who understands resolution and framerate. There are only 2 types of TVs I can own today, 1080p and 4K. That person can either own a PS4, or want to buy into Sony. Neo is released and it costs more than PS4. What questions would that layman ask?
Q: So why would I buy Neo it costs way more than PS4.
A: Games will look better on Neo, and have a 1080p minimal resolution requirement, games will look better on Neo, and some games might have better frame rate.
Q: Okay, so PS4 does 1080p for almost all titles already, so that’s not a big difference to me. And if this device can’t do 4K, explain to me how games will look better, and will all games have better frame rate?
A: Well, I need to show you the games running side by side PS4 vs Neo to show you how games look better, and frame rate will depend on the game, so I can’t tell you exactly today which games will have higher frame rates.
Q: So is this device for PSVR? Because you said that all games for PSVR run 60 and works perfectly for PS4.
A: Neo will run all games in 1080/60 in PSVR. But so does PS4. But Neo games will look better, once again, we’ll need to show you the two games running side by side.
And there is the inherent problem. In order to justify Neo’s worth, you need to run it side by side to PS4. Just think about what a disaster that is for their marketing department; how BAD would it be if your audience you are selling it to are having issues seeing the differences in quality between a Neo and PS4 title. So there better be a noticeable difference between how games look on PS4 and Neo right? Of course there will have to be, or you would just buy a PS4. Let’s not even dive into discussion of whether Sony should start looking at whether the gap between the Neo and PS4 version of a title is large enough during certification.
Neo is not in trouble because Scorpio is a MS product, Neo is in trouble because Scorpio will exist within 12 months of Neo’s launch. If Scorpio did not exist, no one would know that a 4K native console device could actually be available in holiday 2017. Everyone would have taken it for granted that greater than 2x the PS4s power would be the norm for the next console gen. 1.5 or whatever you want to call it. It’s entirely possible that Sony expected MS to follow suit.
The rebuttal that when PS5 comes it will crush Scorpio is pointless, because that’s not what Sony is actually worried about. The issue is that Sony will take 2 generations of hardware to get to 4K native when their competitor will do it in 1, and there is no messaging or communication you can wrap around that to make that sound good to your existing customer base. If you’re a Sony fan you’re going to wait a long time for 4K native, let me explain.
Let’s look at the product release timeline with pricing:
PS3 2006 - high fidelity gaming; $499/$599
PS4 2013 - HD gaming 1080p; $399
Neo 2016 - 1080p 2x better looking HD gaming; $499?
PS5 2019 - 4K UHD gaming ?? $499??
So if that schedule looks way too tight and likely to blow up your good will with your customers the simple answer is to delay PS5; and there it is, you’re going to wait a long time for 4K native.
As someone who owns a launch PS4, you’ve got to be thinking, 6 years is a long wait for 4K UHD, those guys at MS have 4k UHD native gaming in 2017 (4 years). I’m going to have to use my launch PS4 for at least 6 years to get it, likely we’re looking at 7-8 years. And if you were a sucker to buy Neo, in a short time frame after you’d be asked to buy into PS5 to get that 4K experience.
Neo is a mistake and Sony has not done their customer base any favours. Games will have to look significantly better than PS4 to be able to justify it’s own worth, and it also pushes out PS5 and 4K because you don’t want to launch 3 consoles in < 10 years.
In my perspective, Neo is simply a fan service device whose core purchasers are members with high dispose income that are Sony through and through. It’s actually a really bad device for Sony customers given the politics that surround it. Neo unfortunately became a reality when it was leaked and MS announced their Scorpio to be released 18 months from today. If Neo was never leaked, it’s possible Sony could have went back to the drawing board entirely.
That's been mostly solved. The last time I had to forcebly reboot my console was around November 2015.
Soon.
Enjoy your console war….
Nothing I wrote was patronizing. My stance is clear, given what we know of Neo today it's not a good product for Sony fans. If you feel otherwise and you think Neo is a great product I'm more than happy to read a rebuttal on how Sony fans benefit from it.
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Well surface is expensive high end product, there are many GPUs that deals with that amount of power nicely though it costs money. MSFT can't do much to improve AMD IPs efficiency, both CPU and GPU side. The most sensible choice it too use a lot silicon, which got more expansive.
I dislike the Neo as well as Scorpio for a console gamer they are both products that no matter the marketing claims are likely to alter the investment you made when you bought your console. As for Neo being worse than Scorpio, I don't think so, the PS4 remains a solid product, with growing momentum and market shares, the things are not that rosy on the Xbox side. Let wait for the costumers reaction to the Xbox Slim but I don't see much enthusiasm, not enough to reverse the trend toward Xbox, and that is leaving a PS4 Slim out of the picture.
On the technical front, I think it is too early for 4K which is from a gamer's POV a pretty dreadful choice from the TV industry... speak about not understanding the implication of exponential growth. Neo is too short but it aims at reasonable performances targets, MSFT seems too be pushing the technology a little too hard and they also created extremely high expectation, TFLOPS are not the only relevant metric to reach the next to impossible target they set for themselves, and you know really well how customers reactions are in these days and age aka those of brats that deserved more than a couple slaps as they grew.
I agree with you though Sony did not have to launch anything but a PS4 Slim.Then plan for a 5 years generation which sounds right: there are new type of memory to leverage from GDDR5x, to HBM, 14 is just landing, give it a couple year and the portfolio of IPs should allow them to go with a tiered approach for the PS5 (1080p and 4K SKUs). They could have use the extra time to come with a more abstract environment for their next systems and ensuring BC happens.
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I didnt mean the recent price drop. Remember that the Xbox One was 399 without kinect, then it got dropped to 349 then it got dropped to 299 and now finally 279. Sony is not dropping the price because the PS4 keeps selling, its selling faster than the PS2
I am a big Sony fan and I can't wait for Neo and here's why...the games will look and perform better. 1080p is just one factor, how about more effects & better textures (etc) as well as a rock solid framerate. We already know there's a difference with a 50% performance difference so a ~240% performance increase will be nice. Another reason is each gen I tend to gravitate back to PC for multiplat titles - this will mean I won't need to. And another plus is that down the line as PS4 is struggling Neo won't be struggling as much.
I mean, I keep saying it but people upgrade a gfx card in a PC for less performance improvements. I appreciate it's not for everyone and only time will tell if it's a success - but I can assure you there is a market.
There is a market for sure! But when I look at Neo and everything they've said, no exclusive titles etc this is the landscape I see for a Sony fan:
I'm not sure if you agree with the borders I placed and but I think those are relative zones. If you are in the green area and you are okay with that, then Neo is fine. But outside of that area I think you're going to see backlash as you've effectively altered their customers base investment in 3 years time.
The green spot (sweet spot) is just so small with Neo.
The Yellow spot is all about buyers remorse for new PS4 owners.
The end of PS4 means no one buys PS4 go forward, begin switching to Neo only. Limited life remaining with PS4.
Suckers area means you have paid an exuberant premium for not much better performance.
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That's hands down one of the best posts in the history of B3D.
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