PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)
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wasn't that the rumour, that there was 2 different possible neo's, the more powerful was more expensive 499? and sony had/have to choose between them.
although I think the rumour was based around the cpu at the time.
Gradthrawn
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If we're thinking about the same rumor, each "option" had a target price:
OsirisBlack said:
A follow up post about the target price:
OsirisBlack said:
Some context around option B's specs:
OsirisBlack said:
@Gradthrawn thanks, that's the rumour.
after some discussion in a thread yesterday, it has made my views on this a lot more fluid.
if it's as was being portrayed then the neo option A is just a revised ps4 more like a slim not a ps4.5. Only allowing games to run at steadier fps, and min 1080p.
maybe neo option B is ps4.5. Where games would be allowed to have better fidelity by taking advantage of the additional power
after some discussion in a thread yesterday, it has made my views on this a lot more fluid.
if it's as was being portrayed then the neo option A is just a revised ps4 more like a slim not a ps4.5. Only allowing games to run at steadier fps, and min 1080p.
maybe neo option B is ps4.5. Where games would be allowed to have better fidelity by taking advantage of the additional power
upnorthsox
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Not seeing how you come to that conclusion. They're both the 4.5, the question they are/were debating is price vs power with the added kicker of an earlier launch.
My opinion would be to launch early and cheap, with MS already playing big time catch up there's no way that any additional power Scorpio has will be a significant factor. And if it is, then prepare launching the ps5.
I wonder how much it costs to make two different APUs just in case they change their mind.
The timing is fishy because Sony already decided not to use option B, since they already sent dev kits and documentation for option A, there's no time until Q1 to make a different SoC, or test a gigantic upclock, new enclosure, heat management, new parts procurement including memory binning (they're probably not leaving this at 218 for a 5.5TF GPU), getting production lines ready, get the final revision to pass all worldwide regulations, and THEN start production early enough to accumulate enough stock for launch. When would they be sending the option B devkit? It would need an apology letter "sorry about your testing team's canceled vacations". Even worse, the supposed option B is said to use a different CPU than jaguar.
Maybe they can speed things up, and skip most of the regulatory approval by using an external power supply, then all they have left for approval is RF.
The timing is fishy because Sony already decided not to use option B, since they already sent dev kits and documentation for option A, there's no time until Q1 to make a different SoC, or test a gigantic upclock, new enclosure, heat management, new parts procurement including memory binning (they're probably not leaving this at 218 for a 5.5TF GPU), getting production lines ready, get the final revision to pass all worldwide regulations, and THEN start production early enough to accumulate enough stock for launch. When would they be sending the option B devkit? It would need an apology letter "sorry about your testing team's canceled vacations". Even worse, the supposed option B is said to use a different CPU than jaguar.
Maybe they can speed things up, and skip most of the regulatory approval by using an external power supply, then all they have left for approval is RF.
Lots? http://semiengineering.com/how-much-will-that-chip-cost/
I suppose there might be some amortization/shared costs depending on how different the two are, but then...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
edit: nvm, was told the graph was derpy.
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Per the article, there can be a very large difference depending on how bleeding edge a product is and how much of the tech is being reused.
The graph comparing nodes looks to be a more holistic product cost rather than just the chip.
If Neo uses Polaris and a Jaguar derivative, a number of the sections can become significantly smaller.
IP Qualification is either already done due to shared CPU and GPU tech, or Polaris may be splitting this cost across the discrete and console markets. Verification and architecture would have similar "already paid" or "multiple payers" cases.
The apparent similarity between the RX480 and Neo's rumored GPU specs may mean some carryover into verification, and the goal of backwards compatibility, no change in the graphics IP level for Polaris, and a refresh philosophy could mean software costs are reduced.
Some amount of verification would be bespoke and probably paid by Sony, with Physical and Prototype also being more specific.
Validation would have unique components.
The rumored more expensive Neo, if it involves a CPU change, sounds like something significant enough to break reuse. The cost Sony is supposedly balking at might be in all those rectangles like software, verification, qualification, and physical that no longer draw from what has gone before or use something AMD has not amortized either.
I'm curious to see once Polaris and Neo are compared to see how close they actually are to each other and their respective predecessors.
The graph comparing nodes looks to be a more holistic product cost rather than just the chip.
If Neo uses Polaris and a Jaguar derivative, a number of the sections can become significantly smaller.
IP Qualification is either already done due to shared CPU and GPU tech, or Polaris may be splitting this cost across the discrete and console markets. Verification and architecture would have similar "already paid" or "multiple payers" cases.
The apparent similarity between the RX480 and Neo's rumored GPU specs may mean some carryover into verification, and the goal of backwards compatibility, no change in the graphics IP level for Polaris, and a refresh philosophy could mean software costs are reduced.
Some amount of verification would be bespoke and probably paid by Sony, with Physical and Prototype also being more specific.
Validation would have unique components.
The rumored more expensive Neo, if it involves a CPU change, sounds like something significant enough to break reuse. The cost Sony is supposedly balking at might be in all those rectangles like software, verification, qualification, and physical that no longer draw from what has gone before or use something AMD has not amortized either.
I'm curious to see once Polaris and Neo are compared to see how close they actually are to each other and their respective predecessors.
I did say in regards to conversation I was previously having.
what is a ps4.5? If it's only allowed to run higher frame rate and res, to me that's not much more than say xo slim with its improved 4k scaling and hdr for games.
if you had asked me yesterday, I would've said both option A and B are definitely ps4.5, now I'm not sure i would define them as such, if what was being said is the case.
but, if I stick to my understanding, then I would agree with you.
I'm surprised the 5.5TF is still going strong (due to OsirisBlack), he's either got proper source or will be gatting a life ban by the way things are going! What is interesting (and I think fairly new) is the rumour of an external PSU, this is so unlike Sony - having said that thier slims have had external PSUs. Could OsirisBlack be getting crossed wires and there is a slim coming or could the external PSU mean they got wind of the Scorpio specs and picked up the 'abandond' 5.5TF but with such tight windows have to go for external PSU?
I'll be glad when Sony finally confirm things but I'm guessing it'll be after PSVR launch with a Feb launch now.
I'll be glad when Sony finally confirm things but I'm guessing it'll be after PSVR launch with a Feb launch now.
Just the fact his meeting happened what would be 8-12 months from release doesn't ring true for me. Both too much detail yet nothing seems locked down. Why would Sony share such detailed info with GameStop if even they don't know what the thing is yet?
Is it him being played here or is he playing us?
T,FTFY
If I recall we also thought we knew Orbis pretty well too. The leaked information were valid to a large extend, and even the devs thought they knew what the PS4 memory would be like. We were expecting less memory and GDDR5 was considered almost impossible. Then they caught everyone by surprise with 8GB of GDDR5 memory.
Perhaps Sony knows how to hide the intended specs by leaking inadequate information?
Doubling the memory capacity wasn't difficult due to clamshell, which is what devkits would have had anyway.
We knew about 4Gbit GDDR5 by late 2012 from manufacturer catalogues.
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For the moment, GDDR5 tops out with 8Gbit & 8GT/s with GDDR5X taking over @ 10GT/s.
We knew about 4Gbit GDDR5 by late 2012 from manufacturer catalogues.
---
For the moment, GDDR5 tops out with 8Gbit & 8GT/s with GDDR5X taking over @ 10GT/s.
RAM is fairly simple to change late on. Everything else about Orbis specs were pretty much locked for well over a year and didn't change. Me thinks some FP devs did a bit PR about 8GB being a surprise!
Often dev kits have twice the RAM that the retail units have (the first retail-like Orbis dev kits had 8GB RAM according to the leaks in January 2013) and sometimes this can be used to smooth out a late decision to up it. I think the 360 did the same too? The late decision may have been a supply issue of 4Gbit chips rather than a cost issue?
The PS4 was originally 14+4 but was changed to be 18+0 before launch. The PS4 NEO will be configured as a 18+18 setup.
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Michellstar
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