PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

[BRiT]

Ah, I think you misunderstood the post. I believe the subject pronoun "it" is being used to describe the PS4, not Neo. So I don't think anyone is talking about a Neo market advantage.

Yes, and that was the basis behind my question, to get clarification on which "it" that phrase was refering to. Although one could predict the current Sony market advantage onto their next console, as it wouldnt be unexpected or all that surprising if the status quo continues. Of course this all presumes that the Nintendo NX doesnt take the console market by storm.

 

[Jay]

@Gitaroo so let me se if I'm understanding you.
by the time that Scorpio releases(6-12months after neo):
ps4 $300
neo $350
scorpio $500

I've reread what you wrote, but this does seem to be what your saying?

 

[mpg1]

no way neo will be $350 next year...also no way Sony prices it only $50 over ps4...

 

[MrFox]

Sure, it's entirely possible this guy is a total fraud who stumbled into some information once and is now getting a kick out of using that cred to work the fanboys into a lather. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

Well one thing is sure, if it's basically the same gpu power, at the same price, launching at the same time.... Discussions will be really boring.

What is left to talk about, games? We need drama for survival!

 

[milk]

I hope, for sony's sake, that if they bumb power up, it is because technology allowed them to do it cheaply and not because they are afraid of scorpio. Being considerably cheaper can give them a bigger market advantage than being slightly less weak. Specially if they can reuse a lot of the same components across neo and vanilla ps4, which allows them to be even more agressive with pricing for both models. Giving that up for a couple extra flops is not the best trade-off in my oppinion.

 

[mrcorbo]

I hope, for sony's sake, that if they bumb power up, it is because technology allowed them to do it cheaply and not because they are afraid of scorpio. Being considerably cheaper can give them a bigger market advantage than being slightly less weak. Specially if they can reuse a lot of the same components across neo and vanilla ps4, which allows them to be even more agressive with pricing for both models. Giving that up for a couple extra flops is not the best trade-off in my oppinion.

Well, for me, I now have a "need more info" vote in the purchase intentions poll. So there's that.

 

[MrFox]

If the rumor is true and that they had two models developped in parallel, choosing only one in the end, there had to be an important price difference between them.

It makes sense to hesitate between 399 4.2TF or 599 5.5TF. They would have a lot of market research helping them choose the most profitable option, but purchase intent might change radically once the media get into it (which they already did). There is no disadvantage to have an equally powerful console at the same ludicrous price, but there is a risk with going lower cost for a drop in power, the market can go either way.

Also never underestimate Nintendo, if both MS and Sony end up at 599.

 

[mrcorbo]

Well one thing is sure, if it's basically the same gpu power, at the same price, launching at the same time.... Discussions will be really boring.

What is left to talk about, games? We need drama for survival!

We really don't. I enjoy interacting with enthusiasts, even those who are enthusiastic about different things than I am. Fanboys? Not so much.

 

[mpg1]

$599 console would be D.O.A. unless it is absolute beast with significant improvements to other areas besides just gpu.

 

[mrcorbo]

If the rumor is true and that they had two models developped in parallel, choosing only one in the end, there had to be an important price difference between them.

It makes sense to hesitate between 399 4.2TF or 599 5.5TF. They would have a lot of market research helping them choose the most profitable option, but purchase intent might change radically once the media get into it (which they already did). There is no disadvantage to have an equally powerful console at the same ludicrous price, but there is a risk with going lower cost for a drop in power, the market can go either way.

Also never underestimate Nintendo, if both MS and Sony end up at 599.

I think the rumor of a $499 limit is about right. Denotes a premium SKU and gets the XBOne stink off of that price point so they can continue to launch new products (assuming they maintain the 2 SKU strategy going forward) at that price point. Also, it puts pressure on MS to match. I don't think MS can afford to come in at $100 more expensive even if it is more powerful. It's incumbent on MS to deliver more if they want to move the needle and hopefully they realize this.

 

[MrFox]

Either way, neither company have shown any willingness to sell below their BOM this gen, so I expect price will follow bom cost, which follows power under the same architecture. A wildcard might be launch date, maybe they could have a more powerful console at the same price by launching later. (which is hinted in rumors)

Sony did say they were entering the profit phase of the generation (first years are usually losing money) and there are no incentive to have existing ps4 gamers upgrade, quite the opposite, they want to sell them games not hardware. They just want new gamers to get a Neo instead of a PC or scorpio, so there is no way they'd sell at a loss. MS don't care if people buy a scorpio or a PC, so they might be in a similar break-even situation with hardware pricing again. The slim pricing confirms this.

 

[bgroovy]

$599 console would be D.O.A. unless it is absolute beast with significant improvements to other areas besides just gpu.

Why? They'd be sold as a high margin, premium option. The base model will still be the mainstream entry point for the price sensitive. Was the Xbox Elite controller DOA?

 

[Shortbread]

Why? They'd be sold as a high margin, premium option. The base model will still be the mainstream entry point for the price sensitive. Was the Xbox Elite controller DOA?

This.

Neo and Scorpio aren't for casual / moderate gamers. So don't expect the initial pricing to be all that friendly...

 

[Gitaroo]

@Gitaroo so let me se if I'm understanding you.
by the time that Scorpio releases(6-12months after neo):
ps4 $300
neo $350
scorpio $500

I've reread what you wrote, but this does seem to be what your saying?

no way neo will be $350 next year...also no way Sony prices it only $50 over ps4...

My guess

Q4 2016, Holiday season

-Neo=$400, if not then a Neo bundle with a game or 1yr PSN+ or bigger HDD or SSHD or camera = $450, Neo+Camera + PSVR = $850 >>>>>> far more attractive entry price than every other "real" options
-PS4 =$300, if not then PS4 bundle with popular game like COD or Destiny etc +3 months PSN since its easy to sell to new casual buyers that will most likely pick up COD on the way at current price @ $350
(Get the new system out, sell as many as possible and as fast as possible)

Q2 2017, next E3

-introduce Neo core system bundle, starts at $400 if there isn't one already, they also loose less by unbundling.
-PS4 price drop to $300 if they haven't done so already, got to keep the price gap
(PS4 prices also need to be competitive to NX depending on what Nintendo reveal, don't count Nintendo out just yet. They also need to continue its momentum to sell as many Neo as possible, remind all developers why they are supporting the sku)

Q4 2017, Holiday season

-Neo = $350, if not then Neo = $400 bundle with free shit like last year
-PS4 4 =$280 or $300 bundle
(Real 3 way battle, NX first holiday season, MS launching shiny new box so everyone have to be competitive)

I can see once the Neo hits 300, Sony would phase out the original PS4 entirely; realistically Neo is probably only expect to have another 3 years until it start loosing steam then the real next gen begin. A 6-7 years console cycle is pretty good, any longer is too long like last gen. If they pull another 599 again then they can go f** themselves.

Also remember from the rumor to official dev kit story started from a slimmer model that is cheaper to build, same source that says choosing a newer GPU off the shelves because it cheaper than paying for a resigned soc. Sony definitely want more people to start buying a cheaper to build (or similar cost) PS4 that they can resell to the market at minimum the original launch price, releasing a PS4 at $500 or more is the exact opposite. "most powerful console ever" works great for marketing a new gen console, not a revision. I am no tech guy, but based on what I have read here is that not only the Neo need a new CPU, the PS4 shared memory also crippled it from running current PS4 games at higher res or double frame rate, only expect the Neo to provide cosmetic upgrade and steadier performance. Looking back at the MS E3 press con, it was the dumbest move ever to show the scorpio spec and date, that message pretty much tell Sony no matter what they release, MS can have a more powerful box coming next fall. More or less tells Sony to stick to their current plan and get their new box out asap, your PS2 vs Xbox 1 cycle repeat again. You can expect a Spec bump after MS showed their cards, but if Sony is still after the mass market, expect only clock speed bump until they need a more expensive cooling solution, or any upgrade that doesn't cost significantly more to build. It fun to watch gaffers speculating all sort of spec upgrade but fanboys power argument is the last thing Sony cares.

 

[temesgen]

I believe Osiris has certain info... but not at the level he think he does.

no crazy butt train no party

 

[Rikimaru]

Why? They'd be sold as a high margin, premium option. The base model will still be the mainstream entry point for the price sensitive. Was the Xbox Elite controller DOA?

Elite controller does not need any software investment.
For high end console you need to make 2 versions of a game.

 

[bgroovy]

Elite controller does not need any software investment.
For high end console you need to make 2 versions of a game.

What does that have to do with price tolerance? Neo modes are required per TCR, your PC build probably already has a bunch of higher end effects and settings and your "two versions" will be more similar than what's done to support both AMD and nVidia on PC.

 

[Grall]

And Shifty, this part's for you, they may move to an external power brick due to power/heat.

Phat PS4 had a 400W internal power supply. No problems with power, no problems with heat. You people obsess too much over this.

What market advantage, there are exactly 0 PS4 Neos in the market. Or did you mean the PS4 1.8TF would be baseline target for 1080p?

Bad phrasing.

By the time "scorpio" comes out, "neo" will have already been out on the market for a good while, from all we've seen and read (rumors, yes, but that goes without saying.) And at a cheaper price too, if the disparity in absolute power holds true. So it stands within reason that the neo will have a larger market share than a scorpio which is only just launching.

Also never underestimate Nintendo, if both MS and Sony end up at 599.

Blah. No point in underestimating Nintendo, because they will do that to themselves... Almost assuredly, NX will be below PS4 in power and perhaps even below xbone. I could be wrong, but, you know, I overestimated Nintendo three times in a row on previous home console generations, so better aiming too low than too high this time!

 

[temesgen]

$599 console would be D.O.A. unless it is absolute beast with significant improvements to other areas besides just gpu.

I agree, the idea that gamers would pay 599 that far into the generation seems far fetched to me, I know for myself I'm not likely to buy either revision at that price. I don't own any 4k TVs yet so the value to me just isn't there. 12 months to 18 months from now I'll be looking forward to PS5 and NeXbox in the near future, not paying nearly twice as much for the luxury of playing the same games I can on XB1 and PS4.

IMO Gamers are more likely to make that sort of premium investment early on, not when generation well established/beginning to enter it's final phase. Sony had a high end PS2, it didn't exactly sell well and I'm not even sure it was released outside of Japan, NEC also played around with this a bit with turbografx and again didn't move much hardware.

My sense is a revision which sells at or near the current price is more likely and a lower cost core version of each platform makes the most sense if they want to move units which has to be in the intention making the effort worthwhile both for them and software developers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Oh the irony. We've lived this scenario in 2013. Just reversed roles

It's only the same if you ignore that Microsoft were focussed on TV and Kinnect for Xbox One. They didn't chose to build a less powerful console at a higher price, they just bet on non-gaming technologies being an appealing USP.

Nothing we know suggests Neo or Scorpio are being designed with any other goals other than gaming. The reason I think Sony will go for competitive pricing is because it's served them very well in the past. That said, I am very pleased that Microsoft are offering a higher-end console. The console market needs to change and more choice is good.

I would very much like a two-tiered consoles going forward. It's not like more powerful consoles are impossible, they are just more expensive. Just pass that cost on to the purchaser.