G2A.com stolen Steam keys.

[Silent_Buddha]

http://tinybuild.com/g2a-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys

Also, the latest Totalbiscuit co-optional podcast goes into more details.

Yup, scumbags of the highest order. None of the money goes back to the developers because more often then not the keys are stolen or obtained via credit card chargebacks. Some are from bundles (like Humble Bundle) and people reselling their keys, while they wish people didn't do that they don't have a problem with people doing whatever they want with those keys.

What really makes me sad is all the people trying to make excuses so they can continue to buy their cheap, possibly stolen Steam keys.

Even more sad when hearing Totalbiscuit commenting on how event organizers feel they have no choice but to accept sponsorship from G2A because of how much money they offer in order to appear legitimate (G2A, not the event organizers). That despite knowing that stolen goods are often sold on G2A and harm the developers of the games that are being used at their event.

Regards,
SB

 

[Clukos]

Afaik, g2a is a platform through which different sellers are selling keys (sort of like ebay). So most of the blame should go to these sellers, even if g2a itself is scummy.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Afaik, g2a is a platform through which different sellers are selling keys (sort of like ebay). So most of the blame should go to these sellers, even if g2a itself is scummy.

Hence why no legitimate e-tailer online will allow reselling of digital keys by 3rd parties. Steam keys can be purchased on Amazon, sold by Amazon. Digital cash cards can be purchased on Amazon sold by Amazon. 3rd party cash cards must be physical cards. Ebay does the same thing. They do this because of the very real potential for illegal abuse. Ebay themselves got stung by it multiple times in the past when they used to allow the sale of digital goods, and have since prohibited it.

The problem with G2A is that they know many of the keys that are resold are stolen or illegally obtained. And they go out of their way to obstruct any attempts to remedy the situation. Even going so far as to tell developers that if they wish to resolve the issue they need to sell their product on their site. And as added insurance they should process all payments for their products through G2A.

The best case scenario is that they are just criminally negligent. The worst case is that they are actually working with the resellers to hide their illegal activities. Basically a form of money laundering.

Regards,
SB

 

[Otto Dafe]

Who is selling cd keys wholesale without any kind of proof of identity? Maybe that practice needs to be reconsidered.

 

[Clukos]

Is there any form of legal action that can be taken against g2a? That should at least give them a reason to change their rules about 3rd parties.

 

[tuna]

I don't understand. Why can't the devs/publishers just not recall/block the keys bought with stolen credit cards.

 

[Otto Dafe]

I don't understand. Why can't the devs/publishers just not recall/block the keys bought with stolen credit cards.

Some do, it's obviously not a popular move with end users.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I don't think it's a good approach. The problem for the public is credit card fraud, not free market key sales. The reason I word it that way is because the problem for publishers very probably is free market key sales.

 

[Michellstar]

Afaik, g2a is a platform through which different sellers are selling keys (sort of like ebay). So most of the blame should go to these sellers, even if g2a itself is scummy.

This line of defense didn't work for Ross Ulbricht lol

 

[Clukos]

This line of defense didn't work for Ross Ulbricht lol

I don't know how that would hold in court but what i do know is that going after g2a specifically won't improve things for developers at all, and it won't solve the issue long term. If g2a goes down these sellers will turn to other similar sites. Mind you, that's not to excuse g2a, but you have to fight the source in order to change anything.

Edit: Best way to go about it, right now, is to get those stolen keys blocked. That in turn should either cost g2a money (if the user got shield) or at the very least g2a will lose a customer. This will most probably force g2a to have stricter policies about who gets to sell keys, at the expense of the random user trying to sell a game key he got from an nvidia voucher.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Some do, it's obviously not a popular move with end users.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I don't think it's a good approach. The problem for the public is credit card fraud, not free market key sales. The reason I word it that way is because the problem for publishers very probably is free market key sales.

Not only that, but charge backs have been rumored to be part of G2A's (and partners) tactics to drive their more legitimate competitors out of business. They buy keys from other online retailers, then sell them on G2A. The credit cards used for that (whether stolen or legit) are then charged back to the competing online retailer. Many of G2A's more legitimate (and non-legitimate) competitors have been drive out of business this way.

Since the keys on G2A are resold keys and not sourced directly, there is little to no recourse for purchasers of keys from G2A unless you pay for G2A's "insurance". Yes, they definitely know many of they keys sold through their site are illegally obtained, and they charge their users to protect them from the keys they know are stolen.

Regards,
SB

 

[Otto Dafe]

It's a thorny situation to comment on because I have never found a single well-researched independent investigation of it. This is compounded by the fact that all the players have vested interests and I don't trust any of them at all:

Publishers - They want all these key shops shut down yesterday--regardless of legalities. Indeed, most game licenses stipulate that they are only valid if the license was obtained through an authorized retailer. Because they don't want box copies being purchased wholesale and sold online as codes, they don't want regional pricing to be exploited, and they don't want people buying low and selling high (Steam sale, bundle, etc...). They don't want a free market, they want to price fix. Of course, why wouldn't they. To be honest I don't think they care too much about credit card fraud.

Distributors - This is the big disconnect for me. How do you sell tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of game codes to sketchy, perhaps mafia connected criminals using stolen credit card numbers--over and over again--and then blame G2A and their happy-go-lucky clientele. Because this is the story as it is being told. Have they not heard of verified Paypal accounts? Picture IDs? If you're losing double digit percentages of revenue to charge-backs, how are you even in business? Wouldn't the credit card companies audit (ya know, since it looks exactly like a bust out)? Can somebody who understands business explain this to me?

G2A and the rest - Totally mercenary. From what little I've gleaned from whois lookups, business addresses, and rumors, they seem like a loose organization of quasi stateless gangs / small businesses operating throughout China and the ex-Soviet bloc. Probably fair to assume it is in these areas and around these kinds of people (I mean organized crime, not Chinese or Ukrainian people) that a lot of stolen credit card numbers come in to use, shipments of the latest CoD fall off of trucks, and so on. You will never get these people to be scrupulous about where their digital goods are coming from. But it begs the question, if they are the principle benefactors of the credit card fraud happening higher up the chain, why is it happening higher up the chain?

Sorry, turned into a bit of a rant there. Hopefully somebody else has more insight into the actual mechanics of the thing, because I'm just working off of conjecture based on motive.

 

[eastmen]

I know a few people who would steal credit card numbers and then buy hulu , playstation money , xbox point and so on and sell them online at a lower price. Its basicly low budget money laundering .

 

[Grall]

You reported them to the cops, I presume.

 

[Malo]

You reported them to the cops, I presume.

Irrespective of whether he would do so or not (I'd hope so), there's still the burden of proof to consider.