PlayStation 4K - Codename Neo - Technical analysis

[3dilettante]

L2 cache: 512KB per core --> 256KB per core
L3 cache: 8 MB shared --> 4MB shared

And Voilá!, you have your zen-lite NEO edition!.

In fact, now the news has more sense than before. Zen is the most logical choice.

At least from the point of view of backwards-compatibility I think that Zen could be expected to run Jaguar code.
There might be some low-level differences that could lead to some optimizations like L2 cache blocking not scaling as expected, although that can depend on how fast Zen's last-level L3 is as the LLC versus Jaguar's L2.
There are some differences in core ID enumeration that might matter more for the OS, but if Zen's SMT capability were in play, attempts at pinning to specific cores might misbehave if the abstraction layer doesn't compensate.

What doesn't track with that currently is the rumor that there are no Neo-specific x86 paths, whereas DF reported that there would be separate graphics paths. There are instructions and features that Zen could offer over Jaguar that at least from that report would be left on the table.
Another item that might not track is what Zen-lite would be. Even if the cache were cut down, there's no rumor for or clear justification for AMD to have designed a significantly cut down server core that should be larger than Jaguar. I'm not sure there's much prospect for any die shrinkage if both the GPU and CPU sections expand so much.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Puma is just a tweaked Jaguar core (same Family 16h microarchitecture). Puma improved the power saving features and had manufacturing improvements (to reduce leaking). These improvements allowed turbo clocks. Puma should run all Jaguar code with identical performance (but with lower power required, assuming identical clocks and no turbo active). I don't see a reason why the die shrink could not upgrade the cores to Puma if needed. All existing software should work identically (but with lower power).

Sebbbi, if these specs are correct, PUMA does not support HSA. So PUMA cores are not a possiblity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puma_(microarchitecture)

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Sebbbi, if these specs are correct, PUMA does not support HSA. So PUMA cores are not a possiblity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puma_(microarchitecture)

AMD Carrizo-L has Puma+ cores and is a more advanced HSA design that PS4 APU(Onion 3...).

 

[Metal_Spirit]

I sta

AMD Carrizo-L has Puma+ cores and is a more advanced HSA design that PS4 APU(Onion 3...).

Thanks for the info .

 

[3dilettante]

AMD Carrizo-L has Puma+ cores and is a more advanced HSA design that PS4 APU(Onion 3...).

Source for the HSA support? I've only seen AMD slides with the big Carrizo showing HSA support, and not much coverage of Carrizo-L or differentiation from Beema.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Source for the HSA support? I've only seen AMD slides with the big Carrizo showing HSA support, and not much coverage of Carrizo-L or differentiation from Beema.

Hummm... Interesting fact. AMD speaks of Carrizo as HSA 1.0, and we should expect Carrizo-l to support it too. But i cannot find a clear/definitive proof/reference of its existence on carrizo-l on any official document.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Source for the HSA support? I've only seen AMD slides with the big Carrizo showing HSA support, and not much coverage of Carrizo-L or differentiation from Beema.

Maybe I was wrong, as per this it wouldnt support HSA:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9246/Mobility Roadmap_678x452.png

 

[Osamar]

Maybe I was wrong, as per this it wouldnt support HSA:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9246/Mobility Roadmap_678x452.png

You can try to infer something from this http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hsa -> http://www.amd.com/en-us/who-we-are/corporate-information/events/isscc, in this section Carrizo and Carrizo-L are mixed.

If AMD put the IOMMUv2 in PS4 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogeneous_System_Architecture#HMM, I hope the can do the same with an Puma-Tonga/Topaz APU, and up-clock all the system 15%.

 

[3dilettante]

You can try to infer something from this http://www.amd.com/en-us/innovations/software-technologies/hsa -> http://www.amd.com/en-us/who-we-are/corporate-information/events/isscc, in this section Carrizo and Carrizo-L are mixed.

The shared name between an Excavator and Puma-based APU, with differing GCN versions listed for them, has more to do with the shared socket infrastructure. The shared socket/package was the one spot I saw Carrizo discussed in the same context as Carrizo-L.
Is there a specific link that talks about HSA and discusses both?

I didn't see something I could use to safely infer HSA support. The marketing choice to muddy the distinction between two very different devices might have as a secondary objective to encourage such inferences, and has been done before.

On the PS4 Neo rumors, I'm curious if the rumors of the higher clock speeds for Polaris will be substantiated. The clocks for Neo's GPU do seem rather pedestrian in comparison, and do not seem to be outside the realm of possibility for a shrink or re-implementation of the same IP in Orbis. It could be a way to get power consumption down, however.

 

[Osamar]

The shared name between an Excavator and Puma-based APU, with differing GCN versions listed for them, has more to do with the shared socket infrastructure. The shared socket/package was the one spot I saw Carrizo discussed in the same context as Carrizo-L.
Is there a specific link that talks about HSA and discusses both?

In the HSA section they have the product link to Carrizo under this "...And the upcoming "Carrizo” APU takes HSA support even further, with design features to make it fully compliant with the HSA 1.0 specification."
But as we know, AMD is an marketing chaos. I am still searching for some true info on the "+" of Puma+.

 

[3dilettante]

In the HSA section they have the product link to Carrizo under this "...And the upcoming "Carrizo” APU takes HSA support even further, with design features to make it fully compliant with the HSA 1.0 specification."
But as we know, AMD is an marketing chaos. I am still searching for some true info on the "+" of Puma+.

That statement is under the header for the Kaveri-based 7850K, so it's more desktop-oriented. The GFLOPs number is far beyond what any non-console cat core APU would reach. The last part of that sentence concerning HSA 1.0 has only been applied to the actual Carrizo excavator APU in AMD's roadmap and slides.
I think this is a case of naming collision, although AMD usually makes a point of citing Carrizo-L with the letter specifically mentioned if it is talking about it--which is not that much.

Notably, the first link in that section is apparently dead when I try to use it, which I suppose for AMD shouldn't be surprising.
The ISCC section's box for AMDHSA shows a similar lack of life.

 

[kalelovil]

Carrizo-L isn't HSA compliant, but the cancelled Puma+ on 20nm (Skybridge) was going to be.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

Carrizo-L isn't HSA compliant, but the cancelled Puma+ on 20nm (Skybridge) was going to be.

And what about Cheetah cores with those little ARM cores attached for HSA?. Also a dead project?.

 

[kalelovil]

And what about Cheetah cores with those little ARM cores attached for HSA?. Also a dead project?.

I'm just going by AMD's historical statements and roadmaps. I don't recall anything about 'Cheetah' cores, and googling merely leads to a single uncorroborated wccftech.com article.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-10-sony-confirms-playstation-4k

"It is intended to sit alongside and complement the standard PS4," he continued. "We will be selling both [versions] through the life cycle.

"All games will support the standard PS4 and we anticipate all or a very large majority of games will also support the high-end PS4."

For game developers, PS4K will require a "small but manageable" extra round of work to support, House concluded,

So not a transparent hardware compatibility, enough that some games may not play on Neo.

 

[BRiT]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-10-sony-confirms-playstation-4k
So not a transparent hardware compatibility, enough that some games may not play on Neo.

Referred to simply as a "high-end PS4" with support for 4K content, there's no word yet on when the machine might launch, or how much it will cost.

There will be no announcements next week at E3 either, PlayStation boss Andrew House has told Financial Times - hence the low-key confirmation now.

 

[Shortbread]

Referred to simply as a "high-end PS4" with support for 4K content, there's no word yet on when the machine might launch, or how much it will cost.

There will be no announcements next week at E3 either, PlayStation boss Andrew House has told Financial Times - hence the low-key confirmation now.

Yeah, why castrate you base sales now...

GamesCom and TGS are the more likely candidates....

 

[Shortbread]

the “high-end PS4” would be more expensive than the current $350 version.

$499 - Core Gamers Market (99.9% chance)
$599 - Premium Gamers Market (27% chance)
$699 - Hardcore Gamers Market (2% chance)

I'm hoping for a balls-to-the-walls PS4... straight hardcore PS4 based system. Let's make high-end what it means...

 

[AlNom]

Let's make high-end what it means...

Make gaming great again.

$1999, 600mm^2 Vega + 32 core Zen

 

[Shortbread]

Make gaming great again.

$1999, 600mm^2 Vega + 32 core Zen

You know something...