Microsoft HoloLens [Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Holograms]

[BadTB25]

Media outlets that have tried both an early copy and the dev released version state the FOV to be about the same although better for some reason. If the intention for a consumer release is 2-3 years out, I don't see why they can't improve both as the technology matures.

VR 1-2 years ago has improved a bunch, why not AR/MR? It's already pretty impressive and it can only get better.

 

[hughJ]

The advancements in VR over the past few years has either been from software engineering or more expensive component sourcing from third parties. The tech that's being employed by MS and most other AR firms will similarly be derivative of existing, well explored technologies and there's no reason to expect significant leaps in any particular component just-because. In the case of planar waveguides you have some pretty hard limitations when it comes to refractive index of materials and the angles they allow that impact FOV.

 

[milk]

Media outlets that have tried both an early copy and the dev released version state the FOV to be about the same although better for some reason. If the intention for a consumer release is 2-3 years out, I don't see why they can't improve both as the technology matures.

VR 1-2 years ago has improved a bunch, why not AR/MR? It's already pretty impressive and it can only get better.

VR research had seen lots of small isolated attempts and improvements through many decades. It was only recently, that after a multitude of technologies had gotten to a good enough stage that some engineers felt that "doing it right" was about to become viable that this contemporary wave of heavy investment in VR got to where it is now. The tech to support AR "done right" doesn't seem to be there yet though. Tracking and rendering are pretty much solved (reached the point of good enough, but of course still have room for improvement), but that display tech is honestly laughable.

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[eastmen]

MS already said there won't be much change in the FoV;

http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/18/8809323/microsoft-hololens-field-of-view-kudo-tsunoda

eh I wouldn't go by that. Its a year old almost and Ms has only just launched the developer edition.

 

[goonergaz]

eh I wouldn't go by that. Its a year old almost and Ms has only just launched the developer edition.

oh dear, I fear far too much optimism in this thread...better to set yourself up for the reality of what you see today and then be amazed when the impossible happens

In reality the first release will be like it is 'today' - limited FoV, otherwise MS would have said things like 'in development and not finalised' rather than 'we're not expecting much change' - this is the company that over-promise their tech so why no be ambiguous when someone is putting down a certain issue of their new tech. I suspect we will see much better FoV in V2, much like what we saw with Kinect to K2.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I think one of the research team members were doing that a few months ago. I figure by consumer release, we should be able to play some X1/PC crossbuy titles natively.

Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of a AR device? That's not even taking into account the hardware requirements for running Xbox and PC games natively.

I'd imagine the applications for such a device are going to be quite different to your standard games from an Xbox. In fact I'd go as far as to say that it's not really a gaming device.

The tech is definitely interesting, so I don't mean to try and put a downer on things. I can't wait to see how far it's possible for this type of technology to go. Kudos to Microsoft for investing in it.

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[goonergaz]

Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of a AR device?

I sort of agree, why not just get Oculus? I guess the advantage is that you don't have to remove the headset to see the real world (ie better socially) and you can move around a bit easier?

 

[BadTB25]

Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of a AR device? That's not even taking into account the hardware requirements for running Xbox and PC games natively.

I'd imagine the applications for such a device are going to be quite different to your standard games from an Xbox. In fact I'd go as far as to say that it's not really a gaming device.

The tech is definitely interesting, so I don't mean to try and put a downer on things. I can't wait to see how far it's possible for this type of technology to go. Kudos to Microsoft for investing in it.

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Given the leaps in processing that we see year to year on some mobile devices and a possible refresh of the XboxOne to a slim version, I don't see why we can't have a powerful yet portable Hololens device.

Gaming would be just a reason (not the primary) to get the device. It is a Windows 10 device, so it could be possible to play the lower end titles now. Although if it can do that exceptionally well, it could deliver a good enough push for those on the fence.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Given the leaps in processing that we see year to year on some mobile devices and a possible refresh of the XboxOne to a slim version, I don't see why we can't have a powerful yet portable Hololens device.

Gaming would be just a reason (not the primary) to get the device. It is a Windows 10 device, so it could be possible to play the lower end titles now. Although if it can do that exceptionally well, it could deliver a good enough push for those on the fence.

It's an augmented reality device. Why would you want to play standard Xbox Tomb Raider on it?

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[eastmen]

oh dear, I fear far too much optimism in this thread...better to set yourself up for the reality of what you see today and then be amazed when the impossible happens

In reality the first release will be like it is 'today' - limited FoV, otherwise MS would have said things like 'in development and not finalised' rather than 'we're not expecting much change' - this is the company that over-promise their tech so why no be ambiguous when someone is putting down a certain issue of their new tech. I suspect we will see much better FoV in V2, much like what we saw with Kinect to K2.

The device is rumored for 2018. The HPU as they call it is rumored to be on 28nm and cherry trail is on intels 14/16nm. IN 2018 both should be on much better processes. So they will be able to increase power and decrease power consumption.

We've also heard from those at the original demo when it wsa still hooked up to desktops that the FOV was larger.

So we know the FOV isn't locked at its current size. So that can also increase as we get closer to launch. Ms will have gone from making a few dozen of the hololens to making tens or hudnreds of thousands for developers which will decrease the costs of all the parts in there.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

VR research had seen lots of small isolated attempts and improvements through many decades. It was only recently, that after a multitude of technologies had gotten to a good enough stage that some engineers felt that "doing it right" was about to become viable that this contemporary wave of heavy investment in VR got to where it is now. The tech to support AR "done right" doesn't seem to be there yet though. Tracking and rendering are pretty much solved (reached the point of good enough, but of course still have room for improvement), but that display tech is honestly laughable.

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There have also been industry wide attempts at mainstreaming VR in the past, both in the late 90's and early 2000's.

The technology is significantly better now, but it remains to bee seen if the general public can be convinced to spend money and to continue spending money. Or if it'll remain a niche segment.

Regards,
SB

 

[milk]

There have also been industry wide attempts at mainstreaming VR in the past, both in the late 90's and early 2000's.

The technology is significantly better now, but it remains to bee seen if the general public can be convinced to spend money and to continue spending money. Or if it'll remain a niche segment.

Regards,
SB

I think the displayed image is not at a quality level modern consumers can swallow. Specially after MS stupidly over-selling the thing and setting their biggest enthusiasts up for disapointment. The aditive only blending is a very big issue in my opinion. A display capable of selectively blocking back lighting at least to some degree is the bare minimum to be able to call this tech mature.

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[Silent_Buddha]

I think the displayed image is not at a quality level modern consumers can swallow. Specially after MS stupidly over-selling the thing and setting their biggest enthusiasts up for disapointment. The aditive only blending is a very big issue in my opinion. A display capable of selectively blocking back lighting at least to some degree is the bare minimum to be able to call this tech mature.

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That was a reply to your statement about VR, not AR. AFAIK, Microsoft have not discussed VR products and may or may not be working on one.

Regards,
SB

 

[milk]

That was a reply to your statement about VR, not AR. AFAIK, Microsoft have not discussed VR products and may or may not be working on one.

Regards,
SB

Oh, i meant AR all the time, got confused there, my bad
Let me clarify further: i think tech is at a point where a good enough consumir-level VR solution is viable, which is what Oculus, vive and PSVR represent. The tech for good enough AR though, I think is still a bit far off. I brought VR up because I think Holo lens is at the same spot past ( failed ) VR attempts of the last decade were at. It sure can be intriguing and impress a bit, but won't yet be able to afford a trully valuable experience.


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[goonergaz]

The device is rumored for 2018. The HPU as they call it is rumored to be on 28nm and cherry trail is on intels 14/16nm. IN 2018 both should be on much better processes. So they will be able to increase power and decrease power consumption.

We've also heard from those at the original demo when it wsa still hooked up to desktops that the FOV was larger.

So we know the FOV isn't locked at its current size. So that can also increase as we get closer to launch. Ms will have gone from making a few dozen of the hololens to making tens or hudnreds of thousands for developers which will decrease the costs of all the parts in there.

wow, so at E3 2015 they they demo'd something at least 3 years away like it was fully working there and then? Sorry, I had assumed next year at the latest...I guess time will tell but it still seems odd that the guy didn't say 'hopefully by release the FoV will be improved' - seems simple enough.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

wow, so at E3 2015 they they demo'd something at least 3 years away like it was fully working there and then? Sorry, I had assumed next year at the latest...I guess time will tell but it still seems odd that the guy didn't say 'hopefully by release the FoV will be improved' - seems simple enough.

They have said over and over and over and over again since the first reveal that there was NO consumer version coming anytime soon. That what was being shown as a prototype and that when it released it would be for developer's and potentially commercial customers. They have stated that a consumer version won't even be thought about until they see where developers want to take this and if there is a compelling use case for consumers (software and ecosystem).

Think about it like car companies showing future prototypes at a car Expo, it may be years before the car ever comes to market. Just that unlike most cars shown at car shows, there's a greater chance of this eventually coming out to consumers. Oh and it actually works.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

wow, so at E3 2015 they they demo'd something at least 3 years away like it was fully working there and then? Sorry, I had assumed next year at the latest...I guess time will tell but it still seems odd that the guy didn't say 'hopefully by release the FoV will be improved' - seems simple enough.

I'm not sure what your trying to say. The helmets work. You can see youtube videos of developers who have them. They showed off Hololens in 2015 because they need content for it. They want developers to start targeting it. That is why you can get a developer headset now and make content.

There are multiple companies racing towards AR like this , meta , magic leap , MS , facebook and apple are rumored and most likely google. So MS wouldn't want to show their entire hand.

 

[goonergaz]

I did say 'fully working' rather than 'working' - I meant close to a final product.

 

[BRiT]

I did say 'fully working' rather than 'working' - I meant close to a final product.

Is that anything like "mostly dead" versus "fully dead"?

 

[milk]

I think Holo Lens's big stage demoes were more of a stupid marketing thing because MS envied all the atention VR was recieving than something to try to get devs interested in the platform. Many other projects have atracted devs well enough without the need for half the spectacle and smoke and mirrors MS invested in for that event.

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