Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[MrFox]

The fact that we're hearing reports that the Rift somehow has less screen door and better overall picture than PSVR has me really curious as to what they're doing - I'm probably looking forward more to the tear downs than I am using the device

The only reports I read were comparing a PS4 to a 980ti (or even a pair of them). Better IQ is unsurprising unless you expect those to be on par. Not a single journalist ever ASKED what the demo computer was. It's the first thing a normal gamer would do. Asking "You recommend a 970, is this a 970?".

I noticed recently most people in the media don't understand the difference between aliasing and SDE (should be obvious to anyone who used DK2, but alas). I wouldn't be surprised what they saw is the lower performance of the PS4, in addition to some games running below 1.4x (london heist), the aliasing would be noticeable. There's no free lunch, they have to cut somewhere. Also, the softness of some games is more logically about the sub-optimal render target than it is about the screen and optics.

It becomes obvious that journalists don't understand anything about this. Even the tech guy from Tested kept repeating at GDC that the external box interpolates frames, and that the PS4 cannot output 120Hz. This has been explained a million times and he still doesn't get it.

I'll only have real information when get the damn thing in my hands. My screwdriver is ready.

 

[pjbliverpool]

From my experience (and impressions by others who experienced all 3 HMDs) PSVR should be almost free from screen-door effect, but looks softer and blurrier (and more jaggies) than Vive or Rift that use hi-res pentile screens.

I noticed recently most people in the media don't understand the difference between aliasing and SDE (should be obvious to anyone who used DK2, but alas). I wouldn't be surprised what they saw is the lower performance of the PS4, in addition to some games running below 1.4x (london heist), the aliasing would be noticeable. There's no free lunch, they have to cut somewhere. Also, the softness of some games is more logically about the sub-optimal render target than it is about the screen and optics.

It becomes obvious that journalists don't understand anything about this. Even the tech guy from Tested kept repeating at GDC that the external box interpolates frames, and that the PS4 cannot output 120Hz. This has been explained a million times and he still doesn't get it.

The following is direct from a developer who's used all 3:

Q: 1. Your headset of choice?

2. Better optics?

3. Preffered FOV?

4. SDE difference between all 3?

5. Have you tried touch? Did you like it or found any things that annoyed you? (such as tracking problems).

6. How are the added headphones on the rift?

7. Ergonomics on which one are better?

8. What software seems better for the consumer?

A: 1) I like and dislike different things about all of them. No favourite.

2) Rift > Vive > PSVR

3) Vive > Rift > PSVR

4) Rift > PSVR > Vive

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bbrtg/insider_leak_readible_summary/

That's not the only impression I've seen rating the SDE on Oculus as less obvious than PSVR.

 

[one]

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bbrtg/insider_leak_readible_summary/

That's not the only impression I've seen rating the SDE on Oculus as less obvious than PSVR.

Interesting, there's some more explanation.

Q: Do the pentile screens on the oculus and vive have a different look to them vs the rgb screen on the psvr? Is the 120hz mode on the psvr noticeable vs the 90hz mode on the psvr, vige, and oculus?

A: It's hard to recognize them as pentile displays due to the almost nonexistent SDE. It's a little bit more visible on the Vive but nowhere near as bad as on DK2 where you can see the uneven distribution of subpixel colors. PSVR is visually closer to Rift and Vive than you would expect due to their RGB panel but we're at a point where one pixel arrangement doesn't really look better than another. It's a smart move to equip PSVR with an RGB panel because you have to render a full image anyway no matter if you then loose some of the information to an uneven subpixel arrangement or not. Their perceived resolution is higher than it would be on a 1080p pentile screen without performance sacrifices.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

The following is direct from a developer who's used all 3:



https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4bbrtg/insider_leak_readible_summary/

That's not the only impression I've seen rating the SDE on Oculus as less obvious than PSVR.

Not bad for tech that's 2/3 the price of the PCVR.

Odd that the Vive optics are considered better than PSVR but the screendoor effect is worse? Especially if the display is identical to Oculus...

 

[pjbliverpool]

Not bad for tech that's 2/3 the price of the PCVR.

There's no doubt it's good tech, although 2/3 the price is debatable. It depends how much Touch costs. If it's $150 (total Rift+Touch price being $750 in October), then PSVR would indeed be 2/3 the price but with fewer bundled games, arguably inferior headphones and no bundled control pad (which granted isn't needed for PS4 but still adds to the BoM) or remote.

Odd that the Vive optics are considered better than PSVR but the screendoor effect is worse? Especially if the display is identical to Oculus...

The answer to that seems self evident. The display (inclusive of lenses) is not identical to Oculus.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Yes, I understand that the optics are different.

It just doesn't make sense that the optics would be better than PSVR and but the screendoor is worse? I guess those pentile screens aren't great and definitely need heavy-handed optics to make up for it.

 

[MrFox]

I think there are many parts that will impact SDE and perceived sharpness, there are some non-obvious compromises:
1. Screen resolution
2. RGB vs Pentile, and sub-pixel arrangement (the geometry within each pixel group)
3. Optics magnification factor
4. Screen diffuser

A strong optical diffuser is a form of "free anti-aliasing", this is the number one thing that will produce a silky-smooth image without SDE, but with a compromise in sharpness (specially with pentile).

DK2 had all the worst choices combined, it made for a horrible amount of SDE. The reports seem to suggest Vive has a less agressive diffuser than Oculus.

 

[novcze]

Digital Foundry: Oculus Rift review
Virtual reality check.

Verdict: It's rubbish, wait for PSVR.

he was sick after playing Project Cars for 15 minutes? ... not good, since I wanted VR for racing games and I can play for 3 - 4 hours straight.


btw. eyes are focused on physical distance of OLED screen or is there some form of trickery?

 

[DieH@rd]

After travelling from display to lenses, photons are retargeted toward the eyes to move "like they come from infinity".

Like this http://forum.unity3d.com/attachments/convex_lens-jpg.93020/

 

[orangpelupa]

It's adjustable though. So short sighed people can adjust it and enjoy rift without glasses (as long as the diopter range is supported)

 

[orangpelupa]

" It's possible to make out the edges of the pixels, but thankfully, not their RGB sub-pixel make-up."

So DF is just guessing here or its a confirmation that rift use RGB?

 

[Globalisateur]

Resolution doesn't seem to be quite a fixed in the VM world as it is in 2d. It's going to play havok with the pixel counters.

It will depend of the AA used. If they use a simple post AA on top of a mild downscaling, pretty easy to determine the native resolution. But only if we can get our hand on the original image displayed in the headset. Not sure how the image from the social TV will be modified.

Yes, I understand that the optics are different.

It just doesn't make sense that the optics would be better than PSVR and but the screendoor is worse? I guess those pentile screens aren't great and definitely need heavy-handed optics to make up for it.

I must have missed the memo. But why does those pentile screens even exist in the VR world, pun intended, when the tech itself is inherently loosing pixels information (or precision) VS RGB screens?

Because of the nature of VR, you think you'd need the best pixels possible because of close they are to your eyes. With the same resolution, are those pentile pixels better in any way than RGB pixels in a VR game?

 

[chris1515]

It will depend of the AA used. If they use a simple post AA on top of a mild downscaling, pretty easy to determine the native resolution. But only if we can get our hand on the original image displayed in the headset. Not sure how the image from the social TV will be modified.

I must have missed the memo. But why does those pentile screens even exist in the VR world, pun intended, when the tech itself is inherently loosing pixels information (or precision) VS RGB screens?

Because of the nature of VR, you think you'd need the best pixels possible because of close they are to your eyes. With the same resolution, are those pentile pixels better in any way than RGB pixels in a VR game?

There is no 2K RGB OLED screen on the market...

Even at 1080p PSVR is one of the few RGB screen ...

 

[-tkf-]

It's adjustable though. So short sighed people can adjust it and enjoy rift without glasses (as long as the diopter range is supported)

Anyone know if this is the case with the PSVR as well, or do we need glasses because = old

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Anyone know if this is the case with the PSVR as well, or do we need glasses because = old

PSVR is definitely designed to allow use with glasses. Every picture of Shuhei Yoshida has shown him wearing his everyday glasses. I can't recall any statements about the optics being able to correct for minor vision problems and negate the need for glasses.

 

[Grall]

I'm astigmatic, near-sighted since a pre-teen and far-sighted since getting Old<TM>, so pretty sure I'd have to keep my glasses on with goggles. Disappointing that only Sony built their unit to allow comfortable use with glasses on. Especially since more and more people need eye correction every year...

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I'm astigmatic, near-sighted since a pre-teen and far-sighted since getting Old<TM>, so pretty sure I'd have to keep my glasses on with goggles. Disappointing that only Sony built their unit to allow comfortable use with glasses on. Especially since more and more people need eye correction every year...

Surely Rift is as well? John Carmack has worn spectacles for 20+ years.

 

[Grall]

Surely Rift is as well? John Carmack has worn spectacles for 20+ years.

I read the Rift is actually the worst for bespectacled people, with the least amount of room inside the goggles to fit eyewear. If your frames are too wide they'll stick inside the Rift and you'll have to take off your glasses and put them inside the Rift before putting the gogs on your face...

Also, since both the rift and vive rest some (most?) of their weight on your nose, you end up with the nose pads of your glasses squishing into your nose = total fail as far as comfort is concerned. PSVR is superior here as it rests its weight mainly on your forehead, and it has the most room inside of it for your frames as well, allegedly.

This according to... Uh, I can't recall where I read this right now, sorry. Some post on Kotaku?

 

[Egmon83]

The edges of the pixels must have a coloured saw pattern then, unless the diffuser really blurs it up enough.
Btw wait... did they really say RGB pixel??? that can't be possible

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This according to... Uh, I can't recall where I read this right now, sorry. Some post on Kotaku?

Dude, you can't defend random internet posts in this thread yet diss random internet posts over in PS4K Master Race thread.

Pick a side and suit up!