Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2016 - 2017]

[Clukos]

EG even showed the Remedy presentation on how they do lighting. The lighting and other effects are done at a resolution of 720p but the game itself runs at 1080p. Isn't this typical of game development?

It's even stated in the presentation. NX Gamer says the effects are done at 720p but the final render is 1080p native. EG clearly caused a ton of confusion with this 720p revelation just weeks before the game is launched. Heck, they could've done this analysis a long time ago and asked Remedy a long time ago but nope let's do an article on 720p with two weeks from release. They effectively poisoned the well with a very good looking game. Yes it's soft for certain people, but the AA is so good that even EG is having a hard time finding aliasing edges.

And I have no idea how they concluded 720p based on the the pictures that they provided. So it seems they concluded on 720p based on the lighting and the softness. Don't forget The Order 1886 looked pretty soft and that was rendered in native 1080p.

The article suggests that EG has contacted Remedy before posting the article

We have yet to receive an official response from Remedy on the exact set-up in use, so there may be more to this story - we'll update once a response arrives and continue to look into it more closely as we prepare our launch coverage. Bearing in mind the team's history with smart rendering techniques on older hardware, we'd expect a similar approach to its current-gen work. In Alan Wake's case we saw the game running at a native 960x544 - a big drop down from native 720p, but mitigated by the application of 4x MSAA that worked really well in combination with the game's aesthetic. The results were often breathtaking, and as a last-gen title it proved that resolution wasn't the be all and end all of image quality - a philosophy that carries over to an extent to Quantum Break.

They will probably update the article once Remedy respond. If they don't it's safe to assume what DF is reporting holds. The good thing is that we'll be able to compare the X1 and PC version come release.

 

[nightshade]

I find it funny that we have a debate about what we mean with native resolution for yet another Remedy game !! I believe they secretly try to make it confusing eventhough every other game does the same stuff i.e. do parts of their pipeline at below native res too.

Same kind of discussion spawned during Alan Wake days, the bottom line is the thing that we refer to when we say resolution, is whatever the resolution geometry is rendered at, in which case it's 720P for Quantum Break.

 

[Clukos]

I find it funny that we have a debate about what we mean with native resolution for yet another Remedy game !! I believe they secretly try to make it confusing eventhough every other game does the same stuff i.e. do parts of their pipeline at below native res too.

Same kind of discussion spawned during Alan Wake days, the bottom line is the thing that we refer to when we say resolution, is whatever the resolution geometry is rendered at, in which case it's 720P for Quantum Break.

They are using some some sort of reprojection technique to make it appear higher than 720p and that's why people are confused, look at the fence here (you can notice a trail on the main characters jacket as well): http://abload.de/img/1teklv.gif

Obviously this breaks in motion but can produce some very clean stills.

 

[nightshade]

If it breaks in motion then I guess it isn't much like Shadow fall, which although had artifacting but didn't break like this in motion.

 

[Clukos]

Yes i don't think it is.

1st frame after camera stops moving

few frames with no camera movement

In motion

Interesting how blurry textures become more readable the longer they stay on screen when you don't move the camera, and it's beyond me how DF missed this when they have better footage than what's currently available to us (direct feed)

Same scene, another example

First frame after camera stops moving completely (eliminating the possibility of moblur being responsible): http://abload.de/img/23yakz0.jpg
Few frames stationary: http://abload.de/img/24t8js5.jpg

From the second example one easy place to spot the difference is this

 

[Billy Idol]

How does this compare to KZ SF?

Btw, thanks for the nice pics clukos!

 

[Billy Idol]

Didn't the KZ devs mention that for stationary scenes you basically get full 1080p res equivalent results?

 

[Clukos]

DF have a video from MP

But no screens from I've seen, and they also didn't notice the reprojection tech initially (before the lawsuit)

 

[yewyew]

Apparent stealth update on DF article...

"A mixture of strong post effects (such as film grain and motion blur), plus excellent anti-aliasing work well in hiding much of the stair-stepping we'd expect of a lower resolution game. Added to this, image quality appears sharper and noticeably cleaner in more static scenes, where a pixel count suggests something closer to a 900p presentation. A temporal reconstruction anti-aliasing solution is a strong contender - a technique where information from previously rendered frames is blended with the current one."

 

[Ike Turner]

Apparent stealth update on DF article...

"A mixture of strong post effects (such as film grain and motion blur), plus excellent anti-aliasing work well in hiding much of the stair-stepping we'd expect of a lower resolution game. Added to this, image quality appears sharper and noticeably cleaner in more static scenes, where a pixel count suggests something closer to a 900p presentation. A temporal reconstruction anti-aliasing solution is a strong contender - a technique where information from previously rendered frames is blended with the current one."

This is more than a stealth update..it doesn't even mention that the article was updated at all. They just added this part out of no where... and from the looks of it nobody picked it up but you (thanks btw!).

 

[Clukos]

Yep nice catch! The only weird thing about the whole situation is why Remedy haven't responded yet, even if the game is being rendered at 720p they could at least explain how their AA technique works.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's the weekend. PR will deal with emergencies on a weekend but not a routine enquiry.

 

[yewyew]

Now talking about the appearance of 900p in stillness, but showing temporal in movement... wouldn't that be the case of something WORSE than 720p?

 

[Clukos]

Now talking about the appearance of 900p in stillness, but showing temporal in movement... wouldn't that be the case of something WORSE than 720p?

Not really, from what i can tell the actual resolution that the game is rendering is 720p but according to the movement of the player and the velocity of the moving objects on screen some things may appear higher than the native res. The theoretical cap (or best case scenario) is only known to Remedy but i'm guessing it's either 900p or 1080p. In complete stills the IQ should be at its best, while moving can and will produce some aliasing.

 

[yewyew]

Not really, from what i can tell the actual resolution that the game is rendering is 720p but according to the movement of the player and the velocity of the moving objects on screen some things may appear higher than the native res. The theoretical cap (or best case scenario) is only known to Remedy but i'm guessing it's either 900p or 1080p. In complete stills the IQ should be at it's best, while moving can and will produce some aliasing.

Ah, so temporal AA? Previously, I was thinking temporal reconstruction instead...

 

[Clukos]

Ah, so temporal AA? Previously, I was thinking temporal reconstruction instead...

We don't really know, only Remedy does. But even temporal reconstruction shouldn't produce artifacts that are worse than the actual resolution the game is running at. The big problem with temporal techniques from what i can understand is tracking pixels correctly, which if done incorrectly can produce trailing/ghosting/smearing if that's what you are trying to say, then yes.

 

[djskribbles]

Apparent stealth update on DF article...

"A mixture of strong post effects (such as film grain and motion blur), plus excellent anti-aliasing work well in hiding much of the stair-stepping we'd expect of a lower resolution game. Added to this, image quality appears sharper and noticeably cleaner in more static scenes, where a pixel count suggests something closer to a 900p presentation. A temporal reconstruction anti-aliasing solution is a strong contender - a technique where information from previously rendered frames is blended with the current one."

Actually it was there all along.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198732487&postcount=1009

edit: So are they running a dynamic resolution? Between 720p and something closer to 900p during static scenes?

 

[hesido]

Are we guys sure of the stealth update, people remember reading it yesterday and backed that up with google cache on NeoGAF.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

I read that when I first saw the article yesterday. I even wrote an article about it for my website and mentioned the 900p on stills!

 

[DJ12]

Smart move, 720p at all times until someone stops to take a screenshot then 900p.