Future of MS Exclusives? (Win10 & Xbox One...things)

[RancidLunchmeat]

People can change! It's a good sign of maturity. It's okay to be wrong, or to move positions (provided we aren't moving positions for an argument). This is how we adapt.

No! This is the internet! Don't you know how the interwebz work? Even if it wasn't the primary point of your thread, any little idea or opinion is supposed to be defended to the death! No matter how ridiculous or unsupported by factual evidence. You are supposed to continue to fight until you get backed into a corner and then you are supposed to try to move the goal posts and redefine the argument to try to regain traction.

It's the internet! Never learn from your mistakes, and never, ever, take into consideration new information that might make you change your opinion!

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

How do you assume that's MS's doing? Why would MS ever care about pubs including a free PC code with every Xbox game? They wouldn't. It would have no negative affect on their bottom line. Its the pubs and not MS that wants you to buy a copy for each platform. Pubs have no motivation to support a unification of the two MS platforms. One has licensing fees and strict as well as costly QA policies/fees while the other is unencumbered.

So this is the interesting bit. And it's actually the most interesting bit that I don't think has had enough discussion.

Yes, I'm here saying "TALK ABOUT THIS"

Because we've had this talk before, about crossbuy games for XB1 and W10 and essentially running Xbox As A Service (XAS? instead of SAS?) regardless of hardware (except for minimum basic requirements). But even when I was trying my hardest to push this as MS's vision going forward based upon their statements (and I received a great deal of resistance, although also a fair amount of support), I was only pushing the notion that MS would launch this with all of their 1st party games that were originally designed for the XB1.

The quote from Spencer on Twitter takes this situation to a whole different level. It's "a platform feature". If you make a game for the XB1, you are making a game for W10 by default. And, the same license will be used on both platforms. More than that, it was also said (I believe I read somewhere?) that since all the saves are in "The Cloud" (Azure - owned by MS), all saves and game information will also be cross-platform.

There's huge implications to this. Just think about it for a second. When people say that PC Gaming is Dead, it really must be, right? In order for MS to be able to get this kind of agreement from the publishers? The publishers must know that there's no (or a very minor) population of gamers that are buying both console and PC copies of the same game. Otherwise, as Dobwal says, they wouldn't agree to this because even if it's only 2% of revenue, that's still 2% they are giving up. For nothing. Or is it nothing? Did MS lower their publishing fees on XB1 in order to facilitate this? If so, will that loss of revenue be outweighed by more purchases because of this option?

All very cool, cool stuff. Not only from a consumer/gamer perspective but also from a business perspective.

 

[orangpelupa]

So this is the interesting bit. And it's actually the most interesting bit that I don't think has had enough discussion.

Yes, I'm here saying "TALK ABOUT THIS"

Because we've had this talk before, about crossbuy games for XB1 and W10 and essentially running Xbox As A Service (XAS? instead of SAS?) regardless of hardware (except for minimum basic requirements). But even when I was trying my hardest to push this as MS's vision going forward based upon their statements (and I received a great deal of resistance, although also a fair amount of support), I was only pushing the notion that MS would launch this with all of their 1st party games that were originally designed for the XB1.

The quote from Spencer on Twitter takes this situation to a whole different level. It's "a platform feature". If you make a game for the XB1, you are making a game for W10 by default. And, the same license will be used on both platforms. More than that, it was also said (I believe I read somewhere?) that since all the saves are in "The Cloud" (Azure - owned by MS), all saves and game information will also be cross-platform.

There's huge implications to this. Just think about it for a second. When people say that PC Gaming is Dead, it really must be, right? In order for MS to be able to get this kind of agreement from the publishers? The publishers must know that there's no (or a very minor) population of gamers that are buying both console and PC copies of the same game. Otherwise, as Dobwal says, they wouldn't agree to this because even if it's only 2% of revenue, that's still 2% they are giving up. For nothing. Or is it nothing? Did MS lower their publishing fees on XB1 in order to facilitate this? If so, will that loss of revenue be outweighed by more purchases because of this option?

All very cool, cool stuff. Not only from a consumer/gamer perspective but also from a business perspective.

Or they have statistics that say it potentially increase the buyer market and the buying power?

So in the grand scheme, more people bought your game and spend more into each game?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Or they have statistics that say it potentially increase the buyer market and the buying power?

So in the grand scheme, more people bought your game and spend more into each game?

I'm struggling to figure out how that could possibly be the case. Does selling a movie with BR/DVD/DD increase sales over selling a movie individually in all those three formats?

I don't buy movies, but I did borrow one from a coworker a year or so ago (the last Aliens movie), and it came with a DVD, a BR and a DD code. This was actually good, because the BR was jacked so I was still able to put the DVD in and watch the movie. But I really always thought of it as a benefit to the publisher/distributor more than to me. The physical costs of adding an additional disc are negligible and the costs of DD are nada, I'd bet the actual plastic case the movie comes in with the art work and whatnot is the highest actual cost of production. So putting all the formats in one case is cheaper for them than making two or three different cases.

This is a different situation, when you're really talking strictly about licensing and not manufacturing. How could they have statistics that say people will be more likely to purchase a game if it's available on XB1 and PC rather than just one of those formats? If you have a PS4 and want to play a "MS Exclusive" (Xbox Exclusive is now dead, obviously), are you more likely to purchase the game for your PC because you can also play it on an XB1 that you don't have?

If you have an XB1 and you want to play the game, you're going to buy it for your XB1 anyway. Are you more likely to buy a game that you were hesitant about because now you can also play it on your PC? I just don't see that happening.

It's a huge win for consumers and a great convenience and a big deal for MS. I just don't see how it can possibly relate to more sales revenue for the publishers, which is why I think MS must have given something up in order to make this happen.

 

[orangpelupa]

I'm struggling to figure out how that could possibly be the case. Does selling a movie with BR/DVD/DD increase sales over selling a movie individually in all those three formats?

I don't buy movies, but I did borrow one from a coworker a year or so ago (the last Aliens movie), and it came with a DVD, a BR and a DD code. This was actually good, because the BR was jacked so I was still able to put the DVD in and watch the movie. But I really always thought of it as a benefit to the publisher/distributor more than to me. The physical costs of adding an additional disc are negligible and the costs of DD are nada, I'd bet the actual plastic case the movie comes in with the art work and whatnot is the highest actual cost of production. So putting all the formats in one case is cheaper for them than making two or three different cases.

This is a different situation, when you're really talking strictly about licensing and not manufacturing. How could they have statistics that say people will be more likely to purchase a game if it's available on XB1 and PC rather than just one of those formats? If you have a PS4 and want to play a "MS Exclusive" (Xbox Exclusive is now dead, obviously), are you more likely to purchase the game for your PC because you can also play it on an XB1 that you don't have?

If you have an XB1 and you want to play the game, you're going to buy it for your XB1 anyway. Are you more likely to buy a game that you were hesitant about because now you can also play it on your PC? I just don't see that happening.

It's a huge win for consumers and a great convenience and a big deal for MS. I just don't see how it can possibly relate to more sales revenue for the publishers, which is why I think MS must have given something up in order to make this happen.

Sony, valve, Google, and Apple are the companies that already did that.

Buy game on device x, it's tied to your account. So you also get it on device Y for free.

__

About buying x1 or pc version... Not all people that have pc is strong enough for game.

Instead of upgrading pc or buying new laptop, buying xbox one seems much simpler.

You also can use it as 'docking station' for Windows tablet to play games (streamed).

But if you have xbox and powerful pc, you can play anywhere you want.

__

This things maybe increase engagement and easier access? So more impulse buy?

So each gamer spend more money on each game.

 

[iroboto]

Ideally cross play becomes a bigger factor. All XB peripherals will work on Windows and the next consoles go forward (unless that announcement changes) so ideally the two platforms will come to a common ground on control schemes or what not. Perhaps make halo available on PC but force controller use, or allow RTS on XBO but requires keyboard and mouse. Etc. I frankly don't care, but having a larger population serves with compatible peripherals stands to create a better ecosystem.

 

[AzBat]

How do you assume that's MS's doing?

MS made terrible decisions when making & launching the XB1. If you can't agree with that then I don't know what to say.

Why would MS ever care about pubs including a free PC code with every Xbox game? They wouldn't. It would have no negative affect on their bottom line. Its the pubs and not MS that wants you to buy a copy for each platform. Pubs have no motivation to support a unification of the two MS platforms. One has licensing fees and strict as well as costly QA policies/fees while the other is unencumbered.

MS is also a publisher. Wouldn't they also have no motivation to support unification? Which is my point, they develop, publish & sell games on both platforms. I'm sure they would love to double dip. Up to now they showed very little interest in changing that. When you're on the ropes you tend to make bigger changes to encourage sales of any kind. Personally I think it's a good move, but what started this exchange was based on the premise that I don't think MS was likely to take this action when they were leading the market.

Maybe Rancid is right about MS giving publishers a discount on publishing fees now that it looks like cross-buy might be a platform feature going forward?

Games with Gold is a service initially launched on the 360 and predates the xb1 launch. And GwG, Netflix pulled from behind the paywall and other changes were motivated by competition with Sony and others and not simply performance of the Xbox console at any moment in time.

It does predate the launch, but it was announced at E3 2013 where they had to recuperate from the disastrous XB1 reveal & talked solely about games. I think MS only did it out of goodwill for turning their core audience against them. As for the paywall removal, it would have never happened if XB1 was leading either. It wasn't announced until after Phil Spencer was named head of Xbox. They never once considered it during the 360 era. So I disagree it was only motivated by the competition. They've had competition before.

MS has never really figured out how to incentivize a unification where both PC gamers and pubs happily accept such an arrangement and it extract revenue similar to consoles. GFWL ultimately failed because it represented a cost for both MS and pubs without any way to generate revenue for either party.

I will agree with that. But how is it different now? Gold is still not needed for PC gaming. They have said they were considering Gold incentives for PC users, but as of yet haven't announced anything. Maybe the press event for Xbox & Windows 10 on February 25 will reveal their plans?

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

This things maybe increase engagement and easier access? So more impulse buy?

So each gamer spend more money on each game.

Impulse buy seems likely. I think the pre-order sales of QB is proof of that.

BTW, the XB1 game store(web & system) doesn't mention anything about getting the Windows 10 version of the game for pre-ordering. Only place I seen it mentioned is at http://news.xbox.com/ & http://www.quantumbreak.com/windows10/.

I'm definitely pre-ordering once my refund is in. Not interested in the W10 version since I don't have a PC capable of playing it, but I definitely want all the Alan Wake content since I didn't get them before.

Tommy McClain

 

[function]

I think MS should bring their pretty-damn-amazing 360 emulator to Win 10 so that owners of 360 digital content could play their games there, and older BC items could be bundled with new Win10/X1 cross-play type titles.

Maybe make it a Gold only perk at first, and see how it goes. If it adds enough value through sales then make it available to everyone.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think MS should bring their pretty-damn-amazing 360 emulator to Win 10 so that owners of 360 digital content could play their games there, and older BC items could be bundled with new Win10/X1 cross-play type titles.

Maybe make it a Gold only perk at first, and see how it goes. If it adds enough value through sales then make it available to everyone.

Wonder if it's doable on Windows or if the fixed console platform allowed them to do some really "metal" coding to make it happen.

 

[sniffy]

Does anybody else remember when Microsoft touted Xbox as a premium experience and that it's players were "first class citizens"? Five years later and it's now a cost effective entry point into their ecosystem. Quite a fall.

MS have realised the bigger picture and this is a move to empower MS accounts in order to combat other delivery platforms like Steam as well as increase the attractiveness of their ecosystem as a whole. I really can't see how Xbox as a single entity loses big time though. The brand has been devalued not just by MS messaging but exclusives do contribute to the value of a platform imo. I am assuming Crackdown and Scalebound are headed to the PC as well. To be honest there is little incentive for people with access to other platforms to even consider an Xbox now. This must be Christmas come early for Sony, MS have basically bowed out.

 

[Scott_Arm]

When the original xbox came out, companies could realistically release fairly high-end hardware in a console at an affordable price. That's no longer possible for any console-maker. PC is the high-end for gaming. Console is an affordable low-end. It's part of the reason why this shift makes sense.

 

[sniffy]

A premium experience doesn't have to be on premium hardware. The premiumness of Xbox was built around the fact that it got first dibs or even exclusive access to lots of content, and had a rock solid online service in the form of Live. Then there were big western exclusives like Halo and Gears. It was the perception of premium, I don't think it was related to hardware in the boxes.

MOD EDIT: removed versus and comparison material.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Sounds like a semantic argument I'm not interested in getting into.

 

[BRiT]

*AHEM* This is not a thread to bring up a versus discussion involving PS4.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

From a platform and profits point of view, this uniformization of the windows 10 platform may the best thing Microsoft could do for Xbox exclusives. They may sell more and the platform may grow.

But from a client perspective and the sold expectations on the console itself, I see this as pure and simple dishonesty.

Let me tell about my case. But first lets recapitulate:

On the Xbox One presentation I bet there wasn't a single person on the audience that wasn't there to see a console presentation. What was presented was an all in one system with the console part as one of it's features. 40 minutes on an 1 hour presentation on a supposedly hardcore games console, talking about TV. OMG!

But that's the least. The Xbox had tremendous DRM and Microsoft tried to force it on people. I skipped an Xbox at launch because of this and the Tv emphasis!

But client wallets spoke... and, funny enough, Microsoft listened (Gee.. I wonder why?). The DRM was removed! But they sure tried to enforce their ideas on us!
This was the first change on policies Microsoft presented, but at least this one was for the best.

But there was something on the console many people were forced to buy. The Kinect! It was part of the console, part of the experience. They would say that Kinect was "an integral part of the Xbox One"!
Since it was take it or leave it, I paid for it... and now... it has been removed from the console, and mine it's gathering dust! There is no support! 100 euros on a camera I never wanted, but it was forced... I felt deceived by this second change in policies since I don´t usualy speak to an inanimate object, so having no games with Kinect support killed it for me.

But at least Phil Spencer came in, and above all he turned the Xbox on a full fledged console. I could not ask for more. That was the reason I had bought the Xbox One!
The Xbox became a great console. Well worth owning with a 2015 filled with exclusives. And boy, did we hear Xbox fanboys brag about that...

But now... Xbox console exclusivity is gone... to a Xbox platform exclusivity, involving Windows 10 PCs. Currently from the XBox 2016 First Party/"Second Party" exclusives only Crackdown 3 is still not garanteed on Windows 10 PCs. But it may be soon!
I've always been a PC Gamer. My first PC was an 8086 and I been upgrading since then! A couple months after the console was launched I bought a PC with a Intel 4770K, 16 GB RAM, 2x 1TB Seagate barracuda on RAID 0, a 256 GB Samsung SSD and a R9-290X. But it was a complement on the One. I wanted the liberty of choice for the exclusives on both sides, so after the DRM policy removal I still bought the console!

So... I now feel deceived again with the new Microsoft policies! My PC will now be able to run all Xbox exclusives. And with it being able to run them better and without paying for Live, having Xbox exclusives + the PC exclusives while Xbox has now no exclusives at all, I'm not sure why I should keep the console.

What I wonder is: Why should I keep it? I had the best place to play Xbox Games... and now... in my particular case, I have a brick since I will always prefer the Best/PC version. But even if I were to play on Xbox One, the best place to play would have been gone. The Xbox, former best XBox harware, is now the entry level hardware for the Xbox platform, and with the cost I payed for her, I could even had upgraded my PC.

You can like or dislike this move (I also see positive things), but facts are facts. And Xbox was never sold to people as part of a Windows 10 platform, but as a single console system. I even wonder if there won't be lawsuits because of this!

 

[pjbliverpool]

There's huge implications to this. Just think about it for a second. When people say that PC Gaming is Dead, it really must be, right? In order for MS to be able to get this kind of agreement from the publishers? The publishers must know that there's no (or a very minor) population of gamers that are buying both console and PC copies of the same game. Otherwise, as Dobwal says, they wouldn't agree to this because even if it's only 2% of revenue, that's still 2% they are giving up.

I'm not sure how that would equate to PC gaming being dead unless you also assume that every single person with a gaming PC also has an XBO. I doubt the market for people buying games on both platforms is very large at all. But there is a very large market for people buying games on PC that don't own an XBO, and these deals wouldn't really effect them. Plenty of games sell as well or better on PC than the XBO, ROTTR being one high profile example.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Rumours of Forza 6, Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4 and Scalebound all going to PC.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/forza...-to-be-coming-to-pc-as-windows-10-exclusives/

 

[Ike Turner]

Rumours of Forza 6, Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4 and Scalebound all going to PC.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/forza...-to-be-coming-to-pc-as-windows-10-exclusives/

Rumor originating from a Chinese Windows Phone fansite.....

 

[Clukos]

Forza would make sense on PC, I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet to be honest.