Apple A9 SoC

[Gubbi]

Spec 2000 had the autopar and .art problem, 2006 has libquantum. Other than that they are fairly comprehensive gauges of general purpose CPU performance. In Spec 2000 you took specIn_rate and divided with number of physical cores (and discounted Art scores if they looked dodgy), in 2006 you discount libquantum.

One can argue that Spec isn't representative of modern day client workloads where C spaghetti has been replaced by jitted Java/Objective-C/Swift/C#/JS spaghetti, but it is still 100x times better than Geekbench.

The only integer subtests in Geekbench that aren't microbenchmarks are Dijkstra and LUA. Yet everything is weighted evenly !! 40% of a modern integer workload apparently consists of doing crypto hashes !!

Using Dhrystones would be better (but not good) and more honest.

Cheers

 

[Gubbi]

Predictions regarding A9 performance:
Frequency gains from moving to 14nm FinFet.
IPC gains from using increased transistor density to increase one-die caches/buffers.
IPC gains from where critical path timing allows an increase in size of structures (ROB, scheduling queues, load and store buffers etc).
Some of the frequency gains will be traded for better power consumption.

All in all (numbers from the lower end of my back):
5-10% better IPC
20% higher frequency
25% lower power at maximum frequency (per core)

Cheers

 

[Laurent06]

Spec 2000 had the autopar and .art problem, 2006 has libquantum. Other than that they are fairly comprehensive gauges of general purpose CPU performance. In Spec 2000 you took specIn_rate and divided with number of physical cores (and discounted Art scores if they looked dodgy), in 2006 you discount libquantum.

They are gauge of CPU and compiler performance. And for SPEC 2006 autopar plays a role, though you now have to state clearly it was used when submitting scores.

Using Dhrystones would be better (but not good) and more honest.

No, because Dhrystone also is subject to compiler cheating.

To get a more fair result when using SPEC, one should pick similar compiler versions of gcc.

 

[Laurent06]

Predictions regarding A9 performance:
Frequency gains from moving to 14nm FinFet.
IPC gains from using increased transistor density to increase one-die caches/buffers.
IPC gains from where critical path timing allows an increase in size of structures (ROB, scheduling queues, load and store buffers etc).
Some of the frequency gains will be traded for better power consumption.

Looks very sensible.

All in all (numbers from the lower end of my back):
5-10% better IPC
20% higher frequency
25% lower power at maximum frequency (per core)

That'd amount to 50% better efficiency which would be quite good if confirmed.

 

[Gubbi]

No, because Dhrystone also is subject to compiler cheating.

True, but the point is that Dhrystone doesn't try to be something it is not; It is a useless collection of micro benchmarks, but Geekbench is worse (yes, less than useless), because it is downright misleading.

Cheers

 

[Entropy]

Spec 2000 had the autopar and .art problem, 2006 has libquantum. Other than that they are fairly comprehensive gauges of general purpose CPU performance. In Spec 2000 you took specIn_rate and divided with number of physical cores (and discounted Art scores if they looked dodgy), in 2006 you discount libquantum.

One can argue that Spec isn't representative of modern day client workloads where C spaghetti has been replaced by jitted Java/Objective-C/Swift/C#/JS spaghetti, but it is still 100x times better than Geekbench.

I don't really get this. You can critisize Geekbench scores for being overly affected by something you don't think is important, but since all subtest results are available you don't really have to concern yourself with that. Personally, if I compare different architectures (which you really shouldn't do in the first place), I tend to tone down the importance of the cryptographic tests and give more weight to the memory scores. You're effectively free to apply any weighting of results that suits your purposes. A more valid use of the benchmark suite would be to look at for instance differences between A8 and A9 scores to figure out what if anything changed between generations of processors from the same manufacturer.
You critisize the benchmark for not stressing the memory subsystem realistically, and while I agree to some extent, you also have to acknowledge that most tech site benchmarks share that property, and that geekbench adds main memory tests to its mainly core/L1 tests to adress this!
It really has more to do with knowing what you test and skill in interpreting the results than any actual weakness of the benchmark per se. Look at CineBench for a benchmark that is way more abused.
Would I like to see subtests added to geekbench that stresses the memory hieriarchy from L1 all the way out to main memory? Sure, but maybe it is inappropriate to ask the benchmark to deviate from its ethos of providing clearly contained subtests. I'd like to see the memory bandwidth test complemented by something that tests latency over the entire memory subsystem, but that's it.
Geekbench is a Core+memory bandwidth test. As long as you understand that, and the unavoidable pitfalls of comparing different architectures, I find it as good as any other cross platform benchmark, and better than most in its transparency concerning what is tested, compilers used, subtest result availability and so on.

That the unwashed masses overinterpret its aggregate score, well, that's true of any benchmark, isn't it?

 

[Voxilla]

A9 looks like dual core from this die shot, not really sure though.

 

[iMacmatician]

Apple has announced the A9 and A9X.

Compared to the A8, the CPU performance is up to 1.7x and the GPU performance is up to 1.9x. The M9 is always on so "Hey Siri" can be activated at any time.

Compared to the A8X, the CPU performance is up to 1.8x and the GPU performance is up to 2x.

EDIT: Regarding the A9 die picture above (and a slightly clearer picture I took from the live stream), here are my guesses:

• Bottom right: 2 CPU cores + L2 cache (far right)
• Middle: 2 SRAM blocks
• Top center to top right: 6 GPU cores, I can see what looks like three copies of the same structure

 

[wco81]

Only the iPad Pro gets the A9X, which they're claiming is faster than 80% of the "portable computers" shipped in the last year.

Hmm, dunno, still very expensive for what it is, starting at $799 for 32 GB model and then $169 keyboard and $99 stylus.

OK the screen is advanced but if someone was doing work on a complex Autocad content like the one they displayed, they'd probably want a big 30 inch monitor?

 

[Grall]

6S series phones look to be really awesome devices. The taptic engine is a welcomed addition, the camera upgrade looks great, the incredible honkin' SoC upgrade, better materials in the case - new glass, new alu alloy... Wow. No word on RAM though, but surely they can't stay at 1GB one more year...can they? (Of course they can if they want to. They're Apple! )

Since they didn't say fragall about RAM size I'm assuming it's still just 1GB!

The only problem I have with these new phones is the external design of the casing itself; the bezels are just so fucking huge (and the gigantic plastic seams on the rear of the devices really clutter up and break the minimalist style. The 6+ is a giant phone, used to the regular 4" format I feel great trepidation switching to something that is so big it just can't fit into a pants pocket at all. The new generation of cameras force me to upgrade though; I love taking pictures, and the overall march of technology will make my current 5S feel obsolete pretty soon if I don't switch.

OK the screen is advanced but if someone was doing work on a complex Autocad content like the one they displayed, they'd probably want a big 30 inch monitor?

Hard to bring a 30" monitor with you on the go though, is it? You'd need a gas powered generator to run it for ten hours too, or at least a ten-fifteen kilo lead-acid battery UPS unit.

 

[eastmen]

I'm still perplexed by the ipad pro . Its really just a poor mans surface pro huh. Weren't apple the ones about stylus being the past and archaic ?

Only the iPad Pro gets the A9X, which they're claiming is faster than 80% of the "portable computers" shipped in the last year.

Hmm, dunno, still very expensive for what it is, starting at $799 for 32 GB model and then $169 keyboard and $99 stylus.

OK the screen is advanced but if someone was doing work on a complex Autocad content like the one they displayed, they'd probably want a big 30 inch monitor?

Next month is MS's event for the surface 4 pro.

Rumor is skydale dual core with the highest end being a quad core and a new larger screen option
(perhaps a 14 inch increases the cooling capacity enough for a quad core ?)

As for price surface pro 3 is $800 with the stylus , 64 gig storage and the i3 plus $120 for keyboard. For $100 more you can jump to the 128gb with i5 . That would be comparable. $900 +120 = $1020 while the ipad pro is $800 + 160 = $960 plus $100 for the pen = $1060. You can even get the surface for $150 off if your a teacher or student.

Regardless a lot of people will still buy the pro ipad.

 

[ltcommander.data]

EDIT: Regarding the A9 die picture above (and a slightly clearer picture I took from the live stream), here are my guesses:

• Bottom right: 2 CPU cores + L2 cache (far right)
• Middle: 2 SRAM blocks
• Top center to top right: 6 GPU cores, I can see what looks like three copies of the same structure

If true this dual core 70% faster CPU, 6 core 90% faster GPU A9 is surprisingly close to my dual core 50% faster CPU, 6 core 2x faster GPU A9 prediction. The iPad Mini 4 ended up only using an A8 though even though Phil Schiller's description of it was that they took the features of the iPad Air 2 and put it in the Mini.

6S series phones look to be really awesome devices. The taptic engine is a welcomed addition, the camera upgrade looks great, the incredible honkin' SoC upgrade, better materials in the case - new glass, new alu alloy... Wow. No word on RAM though, but surely they can't stay at 1GB one more year...can they? (Of course they can if they want to. They're Apple! )

Since they didn't say fragall about RAM size I'm assuming it's still just 1GB!

They kept the 16GB flash starting configuration even with the higher resolution cameras and 4k video so 1GB of RAM would be very disappointing but sadly not surprising.

I'm still perplexed by the ipad pro . Its really just a poor mans surface pro huh. Weren't apple the ones about stylus being the past and archaic ?

I thought Microsoft's Surface Pro recent partnerships with Dell and HP were an attempt to pre-empt the iPad Pro announcement so I was surprised that Microsoft came on stage to support the iPad Pro. I suppose it's the right move as a software company to make sure they can't lose regardless of how the Surface Pro - iPad Pro competition turns out.

 

[Grall]

They kept the 16GB flash starting configuration even with the higher resolution cameras and 4k video so 1GB of RAM would be very disappointing but sadly not surprising.

Since they're focusing on optimization in iOS 9, I'm sure reducing RAM consumption so they can scrape by on 1GB to maximize profits for yet another year is a top priority...

In the end though it doesn't matter how much or how little RAM the phone has, as long as it is enough.

One might make the case that 1GB isn't "enough" though as it requires frequent browser tab reloading, but you might also argue that chucking in more RAM just to burn it on browser tabs is inefficient... *shrug* There's two sides to every coin. Well, three really, but we don't really count the edge.

 

[wishiknew]

No air 3 really sucks. And mini 4 is only A8 too.

 

[wco81]

How much portability do you need to work on AutoCad projects as complex as the one they showed?

Would you really be pinching and zooming around or using the stylus?

Or would you more likely to do serious work on such content at a workstation with a big monitor?

But of course, they're not really targeting only professionals with this product. It's mostly going to be used to watch videos on a bigger iPad screen.

Maybe the only saving grace is that there could be discounting. It seemed, just anecdotally, that there were more iPad sales this past year, usually those iPad with $50 or even $100 gift cards at different times. Or even an outright sale, like I got the iPad Air 2 16 GB for $125 off, at $375, from Best Buy last month.

Maybe the iPad Pro won't be discounted for awhile but the rest of the lineup except the iPad mini 4 are unchanged so those should see more frequent sales, as iPad sales volumes were down this past year over the previous year.

As for the storage and RAM configurations, I'm not surprised Apple didn't change, especially on iPhone. They sold a ton of iPhone 6s last year with 16 GB base SKU and 1 GB of RAM. There is no economic incentive for them to offer more storage or RAM at same prices, none. Until their tightfistedness on these SKUs are punished in the market by people buying the competitor's products, they have no reason to change.

 

[iroboto]

I'm still perplexed by the ipad pro . Its really just a poor mans surface pro huh. Weren't apple the ones about stylus being the past and archaic ?

Yes and no. At the end of the day the core strength behind surface is actually the unification that it resides in the windows 10 ecosystem which will apply to all their devices going forward. iPad pro is still very much an iPad, or perhaps a really effective wacom screen now. Apple developers will make or break the iPad pro imo. But it's a decent replacement over the 11" Macbook Air which started at $999. Only you get a way better screen, and stylus and keyboard in the form factor of a tablet that operates as a tablet. Surface is still very much a hybrid device. It operates very well with a mouse. iPad still has no such support for such an input mechanism.

The real question you should be asking is, how many people touch their surface screen and use it as a touch tablet device as opposed to the laptop style.

I know for iPad Pro, its mode of operation won't change because a stylus and keyboard have been introduced.

Next month is MS's event for the surface 4 pro.

Rumor is skydale dual core with the highest end being a quad core and a new larger screen option
(perhaps a 14 inch increases the cooling capacity enough for a quad core ?)

As for price surface pro 3 is $800 with the stylus , 64 gig storage and the i3 plus $120 for keyboard. For $100 more you can jump to the 128gb with i5 . That would be comparable. $900 +120 = $1020 while the ipad pro is $800 + 160 = $960 plus $100 for the pen = $1060. You can even get the surface for $150 off if your a teacher or student.

Regardless a lot of people will still buy the pro ipad.

 

[Grall]

And mini 4 is only A8 too.

A8X actually, but we know what you mean. Anyway, A8X is a quite fast chip, I don't think you'll suffer. Would have been nice to have had an iPad Air with A9X of course, but presumably, fabbing capacity might not be there to support such a product.

 

[wishiknew]

I missed ltcommander.data posting first. Apple's website is only showing A8 for mini 4

 

[ltcommander.data]

https://developer.apple.com/library...eral/iOS90SeedAPIDiffs/Objective-C/Metal.html

iOS 9 GM adds a new Metal GPU family 3 which confirms the A9/A9X does use a new GPU architecture, presumably a Series 7XT. Metal GPU family 1 is Series 6 and family 2 is Series 6XT.

Since they're focusing on optimization in iOS 9, I'm sure reducing RAM consumption so they can scrape by on 1GB to maximize profits for yet another year is a top priority...

In the end though it doesn't matter how much or how little RAM the phone has, as long as it is enough.

One might make the case that 1GB isn't "enough" though as it requires frequent browser tab reloading, but you might also argue that chucking in more RAM just to burn it on browser tabs is inefficient... *shrug* There's two sides to every coin. Well, three really, but we don't really count the edge.

Most of the focus on the new iOS 9 Adblock feature is on ad revenue, CPU usage, power, and cellular data, but it should also reduce RAM usage for web sites and tab reloading.

 

[eastmen]

Yes and no. At the end of the day the core strength behind surface is actually the unification that it resides in the windows 10 ecosystem which will apply to all their devices going forward. iPad pro is still very much an iPad, or perhaps a really effective wacom screen now. Apple developers will make or break the iPad pro imo. But it's a decent replacement over the 11" Macbook Air which started at $999. Only you get a way better screen, and stylus and keyboard in the form factor of a tablet that operates as a tablet. Surface is still very much a hybrid device. It operates very well with a mouse. iPad still has no such support for such an input mechanism.

The real question you should be asking is, how many people touch their surface screen and use it as a touch tablet device as opposed to the laptop style.

I know for iPad Pro, its mode of operation won't change because a stylus and keyboard have been introduced.

Yes except your limited by ios which means it will need new apps devoted to it and more so to its $100 pen

I'm taking classes at the local community college and I've started to see the surface pro 3 pop up every where and a lot of people never touch the keyboard and only use the pen or touch screen.