Standing desks

[Rys]

Hello. I'm quite fat, and I blame you. Years of deep and unstoppable addiction to pixels means I've sat down in front of the computers that let me work on them for basically my entire adult life. Sitting, combined with a parallel but no less deep and unstoppable addiction to biscuits (cookies, if you're in the North American British Annexes), means I'm not in great shape.

As part of doing something about it, before I'm too smooshy and atrophied to enjoy having kids at some point in the future, I've recently got myself a standing desk (IKEA Bekant, it's magnificent) and a padded mat (Varidesk "The Mat", mostly magnificent) to perch on while I'm stood.

I've always wondered about getting one since they became a thing in tech circles, and now I've got one I feel sad that I didn't get one years ago. I can't say that it's helping me actually become more healthy just by itself, because I'm doing a bunch of other things to make that happen alongside the standing, but the psychosomatic benefits are real enough.

Anyone else stand up while they're computing? Those who do stand, do you have any tips for a fellow new standee?

Things that bug me a bit so far that I want help with:

• Even with The Mat, my feet still get sore after prolonged sessions stood up (5 hours or so seems to be the threshold, from the unscientific counting I've done so far), and rather than sit when that happens I tend to just walk off and do something else. The soreness tricks me into thinking I'm done at the computer, even if I've still got stuff to do.
• I have no real idea what the best ratio of sitting to standing is. I'm sure there's detrimental effects from standing up for so long, just as there are from sitting (even though we're designed to be upright, evolutionary speaking, we're also designed to move while being so).

 

[iroboto]

I want to do what you do, but I find my endurance wanes too quickly and I cannot focus on doing work.

Is that a problem you have now ?

 

[Rys]

I can't say I've felt more mentally fatigued while stood up, and mental distractions and fatigue are the number one thing that stop me getting things done, way before physical fatigue or endurance causes me to stop focusing. The good thing about the Bekant desk is that it's motorised, so if I want to sit because I'm physically tired, I can at the press of a button.

I didn't want a fixed standing desk just in case I couldn't stand up for long periods, so having the option of sitting was a definite requirement, but since getting it I've stood up for well over 95% of the time (I keep a written log, and I'm currently in the process of automating the log as part of a side project to monitor and control the desk with an Intel Galileo).

Might start another thread about focus at work, since I employ chemical measures to help me there quite a lot of the time and I've always wanted to discuss that.

 

[Lightman]

Interesting!

I'm trying to play games in my living room while standing (not Kinect games!) and for work in front of PC I try to do some walking, jumping or else every 1h-2h for at least 5 minutes. It makes difference to when I was sat for 8h straight!

Chemical you say Rys, care to elaborate? I'm using chemical called Coffee in decent amounts for work and occasional beer to improve my BF4 / Titanfall aim (often called lag compensation)! With beer lag compensator you have to be careful not to overdose as there is tiny window of improving aim or simply ruining it completely

 

[Rys]

Coffee (and tea, I'm British after all!) has been an integral part of my life since I was in my early teens, so I've always somewhat relied on caffeine to function. I'm chemically addicted to it, but I don't mind because it's not like I need to shoot up to get it. Delicious coffee is delicious.

In the last couple of years or so I've also added https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil to the mix, and every other day, during weekdays (or every day if I feel like I need it), I stack it with a reasonably strong coffee first thing in the morning. It's not readily available on prescription here in the UK, because it's never really been introduced to this country's GP populace, and so it doesn't have a classification as far as the Misuse of Drugs Act goes.

For me, its number 1 active effect is clearing my head of the little mental distractions that precipitate throughout a day, especially at work. The nature of what I do (engineering manager) means I have dozens of things to think about all day, so focusing on any one of those things for the length of time required to make progress is difficult. Modafinil lets me do that, and then I use task management software to help me know when to switch to something else. It turns off the voices, if that makes sense? I'm not schizophrenic or anything, but my own mind is constantly "telling" me to think or do this or that all the time. It clears the deck in that respect.

It works best in conjunction with caffeine for me (I tried using it to wean myself off of caffeine a bit, and that worked, but it's less effective). 200mg and my usual load of coffee or tea tends to have it last 7.5-8 hours, so it's great for work. The only negative side effects for me are really minor: weird feeling when it starts to work, which quickly fades, and it makes my pee smell a bit like asparagus.

It's not chemically addictive (in me at least) and I don't feel bad when I stop taking it, but if I take it every day it builds up enough that taking more doesn't help, which is why I usually do one day on, one day off, and none on Saturday and Sunday (unless I want to, like today).

Beer does nothing good for my ability to operate a computer I'm not a big drinker (spent most of my late 20s drunk or hungover, which isn't how IMG need me to roll these days).

 

[Lightman]

Interesting!
I'm not heavy drinker at all and I only pointed it out because of that funny side effect of improving my aim in FPS games, but lately I have not much time to game because running own business takes lions share of it.

From time to time I also do take extra vitamins like B6 and B12, but it's hard to quantify their effect on me. Subjectively I felt more switched on and energetic, but at the same time I had bigger craving for sweets (which is not small in the first place).

BTW I'm not into energy drinks as I've found them to be short term gain for much worse long term drain of energy. This is why I only drink one as last resort on long car journeys (I have customers all over England and Wales) and only if no further than 1h to 2h from destination, otherwise I will fall asleep.

 

[Rys]

I take a multivitamin and separate vitamin D supplement, but I don't make any claim to the efficacy of the multivitamin, since I can go weeks without taking it and I don't notice any physiological difference. Depending on the day you ask me, I can be equal parts convinced that multivitamins are pseudoscience, or they're required for sedentary folks like me with average-to-bad diets.

 

[pascal]

For vitamins try pharmaton, It really works.
Need to improve blood circulation, then change your diet and try some quick exercise.
May I sugest one lemon in the morning and Air Climber (30 minutes)?

 

[Arwin]

You can only stand so long comfortably. If you can find one that fits under the desk while working, some kind of cycling home-trainer is actually very good. Cycling is relatively little taxing for any particular joint. I never had weight problems though - I cycle anywhere, and when I'm working I'm typically so focussed I forget to eat and drink. Only weakness is liquorice, but I mostly just stopped buying that when I decided that I was eating too much (now I only have specific ones that take a while to chew down and keep them in the car for rare long car-drives). My biggest secret weapon so far has been though to always cycle every day one way or another anywhere it is even remotely possible. Folding-bikes really help with that (like the excellent US made Brompton bike, highly recommended - expensive, but I bought mine 15 years ago and its still in great shape)

 

[PixResearch]

Ok - I'm coming over to try this bad boy out... Do you have it in the office or at home?

Standing up in an office environment feels like it would be a bit weird if everyone else was sitting - especially in your building given all the glass walls you'd be like a beacon! At least it'll be easy to see when you're in.

 

[Rys]

Sadly it's only at home, since I'd love to have the same setup at work. It would be odd in the context of everyone else sitting down though, I agree!

 

[cjo]

Sadly it's only at home, since I'd love to have the same setup at work. It would be odd in the context of everyone else sitting down though, I agree!

I wouldn't have thought the idea of being odd in the context of everyone else would have bothered you

I've thought about getting a standing desk before; How many times have you (almost?) knocked your monitor over because the cable got caught while changing desk height? Have you noticed spending the extra time standing up has had an impact on how well you sleep?

 

[AlexV]

Sadly it's only at home, since I'd love to have the same setup at work. It would be odd in the context of everyone else sitting down though, I agree!

It's not as odd in practice, I reckon. A colleague here in Cambridge...err...obtained one and he's having lots of fun with it whenever he feels like doing so. Nobody notices.

 

[Davros]

How do you have fun with a desk ?

 

[pascal]

Rys, you dont need to stand up. You need to change your lifestyle, at least partially.

Pharmaton has a formulation for stress situation.
One expert in pharmaceutics and another in physical education independentelly recomended this one to me.

But it will not be enough.
You need to change your diet and do some aerobics exercise at least 3 times a week.
The week has 168 hours, then take 3 hours to do some exercise.
Change to mediterrean or/and japanese food and forget the junk food.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/

Priorize yourself and you will work and live better.
Live long and prosper

 

[Davros]

One expert in pharmaceutics and another in physical education independentelly recomended this one to me.

You are aware that if you have a half decent diet taking multivitamins is of no benefit at all

 

[pascal]

A really decent diet is difficult to have, specially in most work environment.
Anyway, It is just a short term transition help (from bad condition to good condition).
Also you can´t have Pharmaton for more than 90 consecutive days. After that you need 30 days without it to detox.

During this 90 days do some exercise and eat health food.

Eat plenty of lemons, apples, blueberries. Have wine, etc..

 

[PixResearch]

Yeah - a balanced diet covering all the required vitamins is pretty hard in reality. Luckily our bodies are pretty good at coping with the deficiency without catastrophic failure. You can easily eat what most would consider a balanced diet but leave something out (for example, I'm not a fan of oily fish) and boom there's a deficiency.

My other half eats much better than I do and I'd say healthily but when pregnant it turned out she'd been anaemic/iron deficient for years. Iron supplementation specifically resolved it within a couple of weeks. She started taking a multivitamin since and it's resolved the anaemia without requiring a diet change. Reminds me that an iron fish seems to be doing wonders in Cambodia right now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32749629

Worst case really is that you're wasting a fairly trivial sum of money on some vitamin tablets that just pass through you because you didn't need them. Best case you plug any deficiencies. ACtually I guess worst case is you buy very expensive vitamins which have 10000% the RDA of some vitamin and gradually poison yourself but that's unlikely on a simple daily vitamin. I don'd take multi-vitamins except for once a year when I remember to buy them but think I've just reminded myself why I should!


PS: I was hoping the standup desk was in the office. I did like the phase people went through a few years back for sitting on gym balls but guess it was too high risk of people booting them out from under you. And those kneeling chairs were pretty cool (although you need good knee padding).

 

[Rys]

My biggest health problem is lack of movement, so that's the thing I'm tackling with most seriousness. Other than walking my dogs for 30-60 mins most days, I tend not to do anything that elevates my heart rate during a day. I'm very much sat down all the time (and now stood at home, but still mostly unmoving).

Diet I've always had issues with, but not really in how it's balanced or whether it's healthy. It's always been OK in that respect. The biggest problem has been calories consumed versus calories spent, because I don't exercise. If I get the exercise, I feel like the diet side of things wouldn't need too much modification. I think the worst thing is maybe I drink too much milk because of the amount of tea and coffee I have.

 

[pascal]

Exactly PixelResearch!
Multivitamins is just an aid that I use from time to time.

Have a good desk and nice solid seat, stand up each hour for 5 minutes, have fresh water, stretch yourself, close your eyes a little.

You have to be in control of the situation, not the reverse.