If other games looked like The Order 1886

[L. Scofield]

The problem with this thread is that we ended up unwillingly assuming that what makes The Order look so good, is ultimately thanks to the "dirty" post processed look when it should be doing a lot more than that

I don't think it's the only factor but definitely a big one in terms of surpassing other games in the eyes of many.

 

[Billy Idol]

But this is a way to simple view imo and doesn't do RAD justice for what they achieved: nearly everyone who saw the game in person states it looks CGI-ish and most didn't even realise that they can already start playing.

You need very good artists who use those techniques in balance and with the desired effects. You further need the tec to support those features without artefacts.

Your own Ryse screens in the first post show that it is not easy to pull off correctly

I personally hope other devs take note and learn from RAD.

 

[TS_JBG]

I do think also that those effects needs to be used in conjunction with a great overall artistic intent to make them useful.
As L.Scofield mentionned Killzone 2, i think that's one of the few games, along with The Order where those kind of chromaticalaberratioblurrygrained effects do wonders due to the theme/environnement.

 

[ultragpu]

Looks like a PC screenshot. ultragpu should know since he's the one who posted it.

PC screenshot downsampled originated from Neogaf PC screenshot thread.

 

[L. Scofield]

But this is a way to simple view imo and doesn't do RAD justice for what they achieved: nearly everyone who saw the game in person states it looks CGI-ish and most didn't even realise that they can already start playing.

You need very good artists who use those techniques in balance and with the desired effects. You further need the tec to support those features without artefacts.

Your own Ryse screens in the first post show that it is not easy to pull off correctly

RAD learned well from it's "look like CGI" predecessor. Get rid of the color and use blur and dirt filters.

I personally hope other devs take note and learn from RAD.

Personally, I hope they don't. I like color in games. If they learn from someone I'd like it to be from the Driveclub team. Photorealistic look without cheap tricks like these.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't know the fascination with saying it looks like "CGI". All that matters is whether people like the way it looks. We'll see. We're basically arguing about whether Instagram filters make photos look better or worse. Than itself is a huge debate and is totally subjective.

 

[Nesh]

RAD learned well from it's "look like CGI" predecessor. Get rid of the color and use blur and dirt filters.


Personally, I hope they don't. I like color in games. If they learn from someone I'd like it to be from the Driveclub team. Photorealistic look without cheap tricks like these.

But why do you assume that the end result is just thanks to cheap tricks? The game has some impressive implementation of materials, the cloth physics is top notch and so is the lighting. For games where these extra "tricks" are fitting, they can be indeed valuable. Another Killzone for example would benefit from this brilliant approach a lot more than what they have done with Shadow Fall. Developers can learn from their approach and it wont mean they will be doing it for every game

 

[Deleted member 86764]

without cheap tricks like these.

I doubt the motion blur implementation is cheap in this game. Looking at the screenshot you posted somewhere above; objects close the camera are blurred more than those further away. It's actually a correct way of simulating a slow shutter.

If you compare that to your original simulated shot on the OP, everything in yours is blurred equally (with the exception of the dude).

 

[dumbo11]

It's worth noting that the developers are trying to use DoF/blur for gameplay reasons - I'm not sure how well that will work, but it's described in this clip (at ~3:20 if the link doesn't work properly - internet is hard etc).

 

[L. Scofield]

I don't know the fascination with saying it looks like "CGI". All that matters is whether people like the way it looks. We'll see. We're basically arguing about whether Instagram filters make photos look better or worse. Than itself is a huge debate and is totally subjective.

Yes, exactly

But why do you assume that the end result is just thanks to cheap tricks? The game has some impressive implementation of materials, the cloth physics is top notch and so is the lighting. For games where these extra "tricks" are fitting, they can be indeed valuable. Another Killzone for example would benefit from this brilliant approach a lot more than what they have done with Shadow Fall. Developers can learn from their approach and it wont mean they will be doing it for every game

Quoting myself:

"I don't think it's the only factor but definitely a big one in terms of surpassing other games in the eyes of many."
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...like-the-order-1886.56507/page-4#post-1824485

A problem I see is that many people like the effects these filters produce but won't acknowledge them as important. I don't understand why.

I doubt the motion blur implementation is cheap in this game. Looking at the screenshot you posted somewhere above; objects close the camera are blurred more than those further away. It's actually a correct way of simulating a slow shutter.

If you compare that to your original simulated shot on the OP, everything in yours is blurred equally (with the exception of the dude).

Desaturation, CA, noise and an always present blur filter are indeed cheap tricks.

 

[orangpelupa]

Try doing the reverse.

clean up and fix The Order screenshot with the lens / raw correction tool on Phogothshop.

 

[L. Scofield]

Try doing the reverse.

clean up and fix The Order screenshot with the lens / raw correction tool on Phogothshop.

I could but that won't get rid of all the other blurs and sharpening it looks pretty bad due to the noise filter.

 

[Nesh]

Quoting myself:

"I don't think it's the only factor but definitely a big one in terms of surpassing other games in the eyes of many."
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...like-the-order-1886.56507/page-4#post-1824485

A problem I see is that many people like the effects these filters produce but won't acknowledge them as important. I don't understand why.

Important they may be but you cant really say by how much compared to the rest. We have seen dev presentations of the game and we know that the assets look outstandingly detailed as they are. The materials and assets in those presentations did not have post processing tricks overlayed on top. Yet tey look almost exactly as they do in actual game. The filmic effects are just icing on the cake. If they got "rid of the color" as you say it would have made their research into material properties partly pointless.
The game maintains correct colors and correct material properties.
Under a different environment setting I expect that they would have looked more colorful and yet maintained their realism
http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/29/the-order-1886-assets-show-next-gen-engines-chops/

 

[Billy Idol]

RAD learned well from it's "look like CGI" predecessor. Get rid of the color and use blur and dirt filters.


Personally, I hope they don't. I like color in games. If they learn from someone I'd like it to be from the Driveclub team. Photorealistic look without cheap tricks like these.

But imo in every game, the colors are one of the biggest problems wrt looking real: colors in games look super fake to me. That is why I like the looks of Gears 1, KZ2 and The Order: they have very muted colors.

And you perfectly proof my point: Driveclub only looks photorealistic when it rains/stormy/cloudy, thus, when the color scheme is super muted. That is why I say: 'super hefty wow' when it rains and I say 'looks nice' when sun shines. And most people react the same, as DC graphics perception suddenly went up when the weather patch was released.

Also, Ryse imo looked best in the levels with muted colors.

Somehow, games can't get colors right...they "pop" to much and look fake, cartoonish.

That is something the order really gets right imo.

 

[Jwm]

I do love colorful games, but I wonder if part of what makes those hard to balance is that we all prefer slightly different shades/tones of colors. Where as the more muted games we are less nit-picky because your don't have a shade or blue that your preference might not like. I really hate picking colors when I am working on level art, it drives me mad moving the sliders around searching for that perfect tone that I want. I show my wife later and she goes blah! (Picking out wall colors, we finally learned to just buy paint and deal with it...)

Or could it also be that the lighting seems better in Gears/The Order with those tones. Fallout 3 for me was not great, and I felt it just look drab. I was playing it a few nights ago and had to adjust to it. Maybe we should take a Fallout 3 image and apply some noise to it?

More colors the more our brain realizes and catches that it is all fake?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Physically based rendering, and having materials with "correct" properties like roughness should solve a lot of the colour "pop" issues that are common.

 

[L. Scofield]

Important they may be but you cant really say by how much compared to the rest. We have seen dev presentations of the game and we know that the assets look outstandingly detailed as they are. The materials and assets in those presentations did not have post processing tricks overlayed on top. Yet tey look almost exactly as they do in actual game. The filmic effects are just icing on the cake. If they got "rid of the color" as you say it would have made their research into material properties partly pointless.
The game maintains correct colors and correct material properties.
Under a different environment setting I expect that they would have looked more colorful and yet maintained their realism
http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/29/the-order-1886-assets-show-next-gen-engines-chops/

The point of having a standard well-calibrated material library is to be able to use those materials under different lighting conditions without having to tweak them everytime. That's why they look consistent under different color grading schemes.

Also, without the filters they don't look as realistic to be honest. They look more plasticky.

I do love colorful games, but I wonder if part of what makes those hard to balance is that we all prefer slightly different shades/tones of colors. Where as the more muted games we are less nit-picky because your don't have a shade or blue that your preference might not like. I really hate picking colors when I am working on level art, it drives me mad moving the sliders around searching for that perfect tone that I want. I show my wife later and she goes blah! (Picking out wall colors, we finally learned to just buy paint and deal with it...)

Or could it also be that the lighting seems better in Gears/The Order with those tones. Fallout 3 for me was not great, and I felt it just look drab. I was playing it a few nights ago and had to adjust to it. Maybe we should take a Fallout 3 image and apply some noise to it?

More colors the more our brain realizes and catches that it is all fake?

I do think that's a big possibility. Just like doubling the framerate of a game can make it look less realistic as well. You're brain sees it for what it truly is and is not fooled anymore. The more colors you use the more points of failure.

But imo in every game, the colors are one of the biggest problems wrt looking real: colors in games look super fake to me. That is why I like the looks of Gears 1, KZ2 and The Order: they have very muted colors.

And you perfectly proof my point: Driveclub only looks photorealistic when it rains/stormy/cloudy, thus, when the color scheme is super muted. That is why I say: 'super hefty wow' when it rains and I say 'looks nice' when sun shines. And most people react the same, as DC graphics perception suddenly went up when the weather patch was released.

Also, Ryse imo looked best in the levels with muted colors.

Somehow, games can't get colors right...they "pop" to much and look fake, cartoonish.

That is something the order really gets right imo.

By getting rid of them. LOL.

http://gifyu.com/images/DriveClub--5-claves3.gif

Saturated colors and looks VERY realistic. One of the best HDR implementations of any game right now.

---------------------------------------------------

I managed to find an almost clean image of The Order 1886 (no brown or noise filters). Got rid of the chromatic aberration and blur with photoshop plus made the color saturation more realistic:

Here's the original:

Physically based rendering, and having materials with "correct" properties like roughness should solve a lot of the colour "pop" issues that are common.

You still need the artists to make the correct materials and lighting setups.

 

[tuna]

I just want to say that I hate motion blur and 99 % of all DoF blur. It really hurt PS3 TLOU as well.

 

[Billy Idol]

Both don't look that good imo. But the 'red' of his belt in the second pic looks better to me.

There are much much better DC pics around in the right setting. The pics you have look nice, the others (go to neogaf picture thread) look sometimes like a foto, when the colors don't 'pop' so much.

 

[MrFox]

Don't you think the boosted saturation is a bit destructive to the mood of the game?