Help Eliminating Picture "Doubling" when panning on games

[orangpelupa]

dunno where to post this.

My TV have horrible picture "doubling" that very easy to notice when i pan the camera on video games. Especially on Destiny on Tower. Maybe due to the contrasting colours and lots of details.. dunno...

When i enabled TV motion interpolation, the "doubling" disappear but i got the soap opera effect and crazy input-lag.

any idea how to eliminate (or reduce) the picture "doubling" while keeping low input lag, no soap opera effect?

EDIT:
Black Frame Insertion (dubbed as LED Motion) did not effect this "doubling", it only reduce the "motion blur".

 

[specwarGP2]

dunno where to post this.

My TV have horrible picture "doubling" that very easy to notice when i pan the camera on video games. Especially on Destiny on Tower. Maybe due to the contrasting colours and lots of details.. dunno...

When i enabled TV motion interpolation, the "doubling" disappear but i got the soap opera effect and crazy input-lag.

any idea how to eliminate (or reduce) the picture "doubling" while keeping low input lag, no soap opera effect?

EDIT:
Black Frame Insertion (dubbed as LED Motion) did not effect this "doubling", it only reduce the "motion blur".

You can't get rid of the ghosting, it's inherent in every LCDTV. Some are better at reducing the effect than others. The only way to get rid of that I've seen is using impulse mode on Sony TV's but it only works on 60fps games and you can still see some ghosting on certain objects.

 

[orangpelupa]

the problem is not ghosting but doubling.

found this from google images

edit:
the ghosting is already reduced by my TV's Black Frame Insertion with no additional (perceptible) lag. Although the brightness got down a bit.
without BFI, it will produce "smear", while with BFI the "smear" is much much less noticable.

the "doubling" did not affected by BFI at all. But can be reduced by "Smooth Motion" post-process that produce additional lag.

 

[KOF]

That's called 30hz judder. There's no dealing with it unfortunately and you will have to deal with it. Some displays handle it better than the others, but it's usually only CRTs and DLPs. Some games offer motion blur that eases judder, but YMMV. Among the HDTVs I've used, LG plasma was the best combating judder. My Panasonic plasma is the worst, and my other Samsung plasma is little better though.

 

[orangpelupa]

@KOF
thanks, googled that term and got this guy http://www.avsforum.com/forum/167-p...sma-tvs-suffer-30fps-double-image-issues.html

man.. it seems most people cant see this problem. i guess im unlucky to be able to see it (majority not seeing it = manufacturer wont fix it)

EDIT:
someone explained it better than me

OK, after thinking about this "30hz double imageproblem" you are speaking of, I just fired up the RE4 game on the 4500 and looked around a bit. After about 5 minutes of looking about in a room with white columns, I think I understand what you are talking about. Take for instance, a light colored vertical column in a dark room. In a 30fps game, if you look around/pan the screen and follow the column with your eyes, you can see "two" of them as they move-- the faster they move, the wider apart the two images appear. The slower they move, the closer the two images are, and they converge when you completely stop moving/scrolling.

EDIT2:
on this moving UFO test.
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

HDTV
- really noticable doubling on 30fps UFO and blurry

HDTV + BFI
- really noticable doubling on 30fps UFO but sharp ( i can see UFO's blocky light in its body)

HDTV + BFI + Motion Smoothing
+ awesome. Its sharp and very little doubling.

Monitor (cheap bargain bin BenQ TFT without any extra features)
+ Little doubling on 30fps UFO but blurry

EDIT3:
reading that discussion, it seems ... its PEBCAK.

tried by taking a photograph at 1/2000 shutter speed and yeah.. its pin-sharp. My brain why you get confused in 30fps doh! and why you are fine with it on the cheap-ass monitor while complaining on HDTV...

what an eye opener. What i think i see... in reality is not what i see. Just what i think.

 

[HTupolev]

My brain why you get confused in 30fps doh! and why you are fine with it on the cheap-ass monitor while complaining on HDTV...

Does your monitor look blurry in motion?

If so, it might be sample-and-hold versus some amount of strobing. When your eyes move during the display of a frame, there's a sort of small "motion blur" caused by the eye motion against the image on-screen. If the image is strobing during that eye motion, you see discrete images rather than a blur (and as the frequency of the strobing increases, this would converge to looking like a blur).

 

[orangpelupa]

yeah my monitor look more blurry. thanks! i think i need to disable BFI in my HDTV