Gameplay is King?: What Gameplay improvements can be achieved on the new consoles?

[onQ]

Don't get your hopes up. Sixaxis wasn't used for anything notable on the whole. I doubt DS4 motion is going to amount to more than that.

DualShock 4 motion sensing is closer to PlayStation Move than to DualShock 3.

I said potential because I know most people like to stick to what's traditional. But with the DS4 motion sensing being high fidelity some controls will just work better using the motion sensing over using the D-pad or Analog sticks especially if they are already being used for something else. The touchpad & motion sensing in the DS4 are actually better controller technologies than the D-pad & analog sticks in a lot of cases but console games are built around D-pad & analog stick controls & it's what we are used to. I'm just saying that with these inputs PS4 has the potential to change console gameplay .

I'm not saying it's the best control method ever for all situations but it frees the devs up from the limitations of analog sticks & dpads. If there is gameplay situations that would work better with a touchpad or motion sensing these control methods should be used over trying to map the controls to analog sticks & dpad presses.

 

[dobwal]

Getting AI to resemble anything like human interaction is going to take a whole lot of compute and programming resources and won't happen anytime soon. Probably not even in my lifetime.

In terms of FPS shooters, AIs already act more human than actual players.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

In terms of FPS shooters, AIs already act more human than actual players.

Sometimes Artificial Intelligence > Real Dumbass

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm not saying it's the best control method ever for all situations but it frees the devs up from the limitations of analog sticks & dpads. If there is gameplay situations that would work better with a touchpad or motion sensing these control methods should be used over trying to map the controls to analog sticks & dpad presses.

That was true with sixaxis but devs didn't use it. And sixaxis wasn't at all inaccurate, so it's not like it was ignored because it wasn't technically capable as an input. It's just devs didn't care to use it. Heck, the Warhawk devs even removed motion controls from the sequel despite having one of the most natural applications of move controls.

Dig up the old discussion and you'll see lots of ideas how sixaxis could have been used. Pretty much none of them made it into games. I don't see a different business case for PS4 to be any different. Same as Kinect and camera augments not making it into games - devs just aren't interested for whatever reasons.

 

[onQ]

That was true with sixaxis but devs didn't use it. And sixaxis wasn't at all inaccurate, so it's not like it was ignored because it wasn't technically capable as an input. It's just devs didn't care to use it. Heck, the Warhawk devs even removed motion controls from the sequel despite having one of the most natural applications of move controls.

Dig up the old discussion and you'll see lots of ideas how sixaxis could have been used. Pretty much none of them made it into games. I don't see a different business case for PS4 to be any different. Same as Kinect and camera augments not making it into games - devs just aren't interested for whatever reasons.

That's the reason I used the word "Potential".


DS3 sixaxis was good but DS4 sixaxis is a little more tighter to the point where it could be used as a pointer device. Say in the next Resident Evil a dev decides he wants to map the flashlight to the motion sensing controls it would actually work in a natural way.So it would enhance gameplay instead of making it awkward.


Remember there once was a time when a touchscreen was a secondary input device on a cellphone & it was basically just a replacement for buttons.Now the industry is designed around touch controls.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

DS3 sixaxis was good but DS4 sixaxis is a little more tighter to the point where it could be used as a pointer device. Say in the next Resident Evil a dev decides he wants to map the flashlight to the motion sensing controls it would actually work in a natural way.So it would enhance gameplay instead of making it awkward.

I don't think that's anything sixaxis couldn't have done too.

 

[Phil]

The only thing that I can see that would really enhance gaming to a next level, isn't 3d, it isn't higher res or even much better graphics than what we have now.

What I want is; something that goes in the direction of a laser-gun for shooters. I know it's just one genre, but we're talking about a genre that has pretty much defined entire console experiences. I know people who play shooters exclusively. If we can get dedicated force-feedback wheels for our racing games - I think a peripheral or add-on that would significantly add to a shooter would make things very immersive.

The move-controller on the PS3 was great in that sense, but just not precise enough.

I get that this might be less attractive for people playing on smaller tv screens, but with 4k coming and bigger screens likely going to end up more and more into livingrooms, I think gaming will move into that direction (gaming in front of the big screen with accessories or dedicated controllers to make the experience much more immersive).

Think the movie "Gamer".

 

[Rodéric]

mmmh...
With the Wii U GamePad you can pretty much do that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JXjDSvXZrY
The screen is always in front of you and you have motion tracking, you also have the TV screen for people to watch if you want...

 

[Phil]

hmm... did you by any chance link the wrong video? I get to a video with a PC game gun from 2009.

 

[onQ]

I don't think that's anything sixaxis couldn't have done too.

The sixaxis of the DS3 wasn't the same, the DS4 is more like the PlayStation Move so it can be used more like a pointer. If you have ever used the PlayStation Move to navigate through the XMB by pressing the trigger & moving the PS Move around you would have a good idea of how the DS4 can be used without the camera as a pretty good pointer.


Just found this & it pretty much confirms my thoughts of the DS4 being used as a Pointer.

5 Things To Know About Blue Estate on PS4

2: DualShock 4 makes it easy
This is probably the best part of the game — the controls. With the PS4 version we really wanted to bring the original arcade light gun feeling back without players having to buy extra accessories, so we decided to use the new gyroscope feature and the result was amazing. It takes only seconds to get used to and hours to master. You basically point the controller and squeeze the trigger; you don’t ever have to use the joysticks. For all the gestures we’re using the touch pad, which gives the opportunity for unique gameplay experiences, depending on how players choose to hold and interact with the controller. It works and it’s addictive.
Why a rail shooter? The team felt nostalgic to the genre of light gun shooters and the gameplay inspirations came from old titles like Time Crisis, Virtua Cop, and House of the Dead. With the next-gen technologies of PlayStation, we saw the opportunity to bring back this fun to the players.

 

[rockaman]

I don't think that's anything sixaxis couldn't have done too.

There is a huge difference in the gyro on DS4.

Its precise enough that typing using the gyroscope (press L3 to use) is plenty faster than using the dpad or stick.

It's incredibly precise as a pointer, really impressed with it. Improvement over DS3 in every way for me.

There's even some games coming that use the gyro as the primary input, some light gun shooter, Blue State or something.

It really is vastly better. You will notice the difference instantly when you see how precise and stable the cursor motion is.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You guys might be right about the pointing accuracy, although I still reckon the example of a torch in an FPS horror game would work on sixaxis. I don't know any sixaxis implementations that would be a fair comparison against DS4's motion to prove DS4 is better suited to some uses. Wtih the gyro, DS4 should be more accurate than sixaxis's accelerometers. ButI still doubt it'll see much use for the same reasons sixaxis didn't. Sixaxis was plenty sensitive and accurate enough for lots of uses that it never got put to. Possibly reduced lag could help DS4's motion adoption.

 

[SlimJim]

You guys might be right about the pointing accuracy, although I still reckon the example of a torch in an FPS horror game would work on sixaxis. I don't know any sixaxis implementations that would be a fair comparison against DS4's motion to prove DS4 is better suited to some uses. Wtih the gyro, DS4 should be more accurate than sixaxis's accelerometers. ButI still doubt it'll see much use for the same reasons sixaxis didn't. Sixaxis was plenty sensitive and accurate enough for lots of uses that it never got put to. Possibly reduced lag could help DS4's motion adoption.

Offtopic; but the six axis uses a gyroscope as well; actually it was well more advanced than the initial, non-motionplus wiimote; as it could detect rotation.
I remember a video where somebody had the six axis hooked up to a robot. I'll try to find it

 

[Cjail]

But I still doubt it'll see much use for the same reasons sixaxis didn't.

Which are?

 

[SlimJim]

bam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2rM5Zy5T5Y

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Offtopic; but the six axis uses a gyroscope as well;

Google doesn't throw up an obvious answer, but you may be right, although I don't think it was equivalent to a modern mobile-tech gyro. Still, the presence of a gyro in sixaxis only means there's less room for improvement for DS4.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Which are?

Lack of interest. Lack of belief that motion controls add anything worth the effort of including them.

 

[rockaman]

You guys might be right about the pointing accuracy, although I still reckon the example of a torch in an FPS horror game would work on sixaxis. I don't know any sixaxis implementations that would be a fair comparison against DS4's motion to prove DS4 is better suited to some uses. Wtih the gyro, DS4 should be more accurate than sixaxis's accelerometers. ButI still doubt it'll see much use for the same reasons sixaxis didn't. Sixaxis was plenty sensitive and accurate enough for lots of uses that it never got put to. Possibly reduced lag could help DS4's motion adoption.

Yea I don't know about the torch stuff, the DS3 was definitely serviceable (it helped us get past those balance beam episodes in Uncharted 1 ).

The DS4 gyro is really amazing though. It will be interesting to see how it's used. I was honestly shocked that you could use it to type, and type well.

 

[Cjail]

Lack of interest. Lack of belief that motion controls add anything worth the effort of including them.

I would understand if a developer said to me/us "we could not add gyro controls because it would have costed us "too much" of our budget" but anything else sounds terribly like sour grapes to me.

 

[onQ]

You guys might be right about the pointing accuracy, although I still reckon the example of a torch in an FPS horror game would work on sixaxis. I don't know any sixaxis implementations that would be a fair comparison against DS4's motion to prove DS4 is better suited to some uses. Wtih the gyro, DS4 should be more accurate than sixaxis's accelerometers. ButI still doubt it'll see much use for the same reasons sixaxis didn't. Sixaxis was plenty sensitive and accurate enough for lots of uses that it never got put to. Possibly reduced lag could help DS4's motion adoption.

The big difference is that this is the 3rd time around for the technology (sixaxis , PS Move ,DS4) PlayStation Move showed that it could actually compete with the Analog sticks as a main control input. people even thought that PS4 would have a controller made of 2 PlayStation Move controllers that break apart as the main controller. What we ended up with is a hybrid of the PlayStation Move & a DualShock with a touchpad & speaker. We already know that it could be used as the main control input for a racing game & shooting game because they pretty much used the PlayStation Move attachments as tests.

The SDK should be a lot better than it was in the sixaxis days, the hardware had 7 years to advance since the PS3 was created & the software is running on a more powerful console.

Lack of interest. Lack of belief that motion controls add anything worth the effort of including them.

This is where Sony is going to have to step up & show people that it's worth the time & effort making a game that use the motion sensing inputs.

The controls seem to work really good.

I could see the light gun controls being used to enhance the next GTA game. In fact GTA seem like a perfect game to show off the different features of the DS4 like driving with the motion sensing & using the pointer like controls for shooting.

Sadly Xbox One and the other platforms will probably hold a big game like GTA from taking full advantage of the DS4.