Black Frame Insertion.

[Davros]

For a demo see here :
http://www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes
Benq use some similar technique in some of their monitors

Anyway Would it be possible to add this via some sort of wrapper or injector like enb series
or if not how about when you have the source code eg: quake 3

Is adding a black frame evey second frame an easy thing to do does anyone fancy having a go ?

 

[PixResearch]

Black frame insertion doesn't work very well at the rates consumers can drive panels. It is simple to test though - just video/FRAPS any game at 60Hz and then use avisynth or something equivalent to insert a black frame every other. Play back on a 120Hz monitor. The effect you see will convince you that it's not worth pursuing in ENB.

On 120 Hz input monitors it's still very visible to have a 60 Hz strobe. Partial dark frame insertion when you can drive the panel >600 Hz helps a bit but mainly just drops the brightness.

 

[Colourless]

The flickering will probably give people headaches

 

[RedVi]

60fps of actual frames and 60fps of black frames on a 120Hz monitor would be similar to a CRT at 60Hz and 60fps in theory. That's not an ideal experience...

 

[Davros]

It works well in the demo

 

[silent_guy]

It works well in the demo

In that demo, 95% of the test image is black. And you're doing black frame insertion...

 

[Davros]

In that demo, 95% of the test image is black. And you're doing black frame insertion...

I hadn't considered that but then again benq use it (they dont insert black frames they switch off the backlight) so the technique must have some merit

Play back on a 120Hz monitor..

why a 120hz monitor? wouldn't that be even less susceptible to flicker

use avisynth

From wiki

AviSynth itself does not provide a graphical user interface (GUI), but instead relies on a script system that allows advanced non-linear editing.

 

[tritosine5G]

A Third Generation Timing Controller

3.3 Reducing Scan-and-Hold Effects
(...)the progressive scan-and-hold aspect of an LCD
requires special treatment to prevent the loss of image
quality compared with scan-and-erase technologies such as
CRTs and plasma(chirp) displays. This self-erase feature prevents
part of the previous image frame and part of the new image
frame from being simultaneously present on the display.

A Third Generation Timing Controller And Column Driver Architecture
Using Point-to-Point Differential Signaling
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla170/snla170.pdf

 

[Arun]

I've been using Lightboost 2D for about a year and frankly couldn't live without it anymore. The difference in e.g. Osu! (music rhythm game) is night and day, and it's amazing for anything where you can hit a stable 120 FPS (e.g. older 3D games - looking at you Davros). The idea of using a black frame (as opposed to backlight strobing) is just a cheap hack to demonstrate the effect and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Honestly I'm more excited about G-Sync monitors for the fact nearly all of them will include ULMB (NVIDIA's official version of Lightboost 2D) rather than for the G-Sync itself. Although obviously it's complementary to G-Sync/Freesync as well (despite sadly not working at the same time today) where the latter help for modern games that can only run at 30-60 FPS.

BTW, it's interesting that backlight strobing to reduce motion blur actually makes things look significantly *worse* even at ~60FPS for me (despite running 120Hz) as the lower motion blur will make the stuttering much more visible than before.

 

[PixResearch]

I hadn't considered that but then again benq use it (they dont insert black frames they switch off the backlight) so the technique must have some merit

why a 120hz monitor? wouldn't that be even less susceptible to flicker

The demo you're seeing is nothing to do with trying to remove flicker...

They're attempting to remove blur caused by something called the sample and hold effect (ie: your eye tracks objects smoothly but an LCD leaves the light on in the old position so your eye sees a ghost behind where it expects the object to be and where the screen is showing it). The black frame is simply stopping showing you the old position of the object and letting your brain fill in the blanks.

This is essentially what old CRT screens used to do. However, unlike CRTs an LCD is nowhere near bright enough to flash like a CRT and doesn't have the response time to do it properly. It could probably done reasonable effectively on a 240Hz laser TV though.

The 120Hz monitor will help in 3 main ways:

* higher frame rate = less sample and hold effect to remove.
* reduced flicker = you can't even buy 60Hz screens anymore AFAIK due to the flickering. If you actually tried this on a 60Hz input screen you'd have a 30Hz strobe which would be truly terrible. 120Hz input reduces this but still looks pants.
* Usually have faster black -> white -> black time to reduce ghosting.

 

[PixResearch]

From wiki:
AviSynth itself does not provide a graphical user interface (GUI), but instead relies on a script system that allows advanced non-linear editing.

Erm yes... that just means avisynth is a command line/script. It's a trivial tool for video editing...

From memory you'd just do something like:

input=avisource("mygame.avi")
blackframe=input.blankclip()
interleave(input,blackframe)

 

[Davros]

Tyou can't even buy 60Hz screens anymore

your kidding, most screens are 60hz heres a whole page of them
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/deskt...onitors/708_7030_70030_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html

you can still buy dsub only monitors

@Arun I thought lightboost was to combat the darkening produced by shutter glasses ?

 

[PixResearch]

Afraid Im not kidding. Just a gap in understanding.

I'm talking about 60Hz refresh CRTs they stopped selling, ie the thing you're mimicking by flashing a black frame.

What you've linked to are LCDs that constantly display an image that just happens to be updated at up to 60Hz, ie they don't have flicker.