Importance of 60 fps in arcade/simulation racers *spawn

[RudeCurve]

I surprisingly found the handling of the cars of GRID 2 at 30fps more responsive/realistic/fun than with GT5 at 60fps.

I really hope they try to mimic GRID 2 driving... not the crappy driving seen in NFS rivals.

A lot of people get confused when comparing games to NFS series. NFS Shift 1 and 2 which are TRACK based SEMI SIM had great handling like the Grid games. Open country Fast and Furious type games like NFS Rivals, Forza Horizon etc are kinda lame regardless if they run at 60fps.

The question is what type of game is DC?

From what I've seen so far it looks to be closer to the Fast and Furious type of driving games.

 

[Wynix]

So it's confirmed 30 i see, disappointing.

*walks away quickly*

 

[Shortbread]

Some more details http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/04/30/driveclub-update-evolution-studios-2/

I’ll take 1080p/30fps with real-time lighting (GI at that), correct shadows, luscious vistas, lots of geometry, with crazy IQ, over 1080p/60fps with baked lighting, incorrect shadowing, static and sprite NPC crowds, flat scenery and awful low textures. Just saying…

 

[HTupolev]

30fps? In a racing game?

It's going to look choppy.
It's going to feel choppy.
But most of all, the combing is going to be awful on an SD CRT.

 

[zupallinere]

I’ll take 1080p/30fps with real-time lighting (GI at that), correct shadows, luscious vistas, lots of geometry, with crazy IQ, over 1080p/60fps with baked lighting, incorrect shadowing, static and sprite NPC crowds, flat scenery and awful low textures. Just saying…

I can see why some folks would like 60 fps on the first big PS4 exclusive and there is value to that frame-rate. On the other hand the lighting thing is pretty big and it looks like nothing I've seen before. I'll take the unique experience, the lighting and eq and leave the higher frame rate for the sequel. Folks know what driving a car is like now add realistic lighting to that experience and I think it will be effective.

 

[ultragpu]

I’ll take 1080p/30fps with real-time lighting (GI at that), correct shadows, luscious vistas, lots of geometry, with crazy IQ, over 1080p/60fps with baked lighting, incorrect shadowing, static and sprite NPC crowds, flat scenery and awful low textures. Just saying…

Thank the lord Evo did that.

 

[Shortbread]

LOL...

 

[Cyan]

I’ll take 1080p/30fps with real-time lighting (GI at that), correct shadows, luscious vistas, lots of geometry, with crazy IQ, over 1080p/60fps with baked lighting, incorrect shadowing, static and sprite NPC crowds, flat scenery and awful low textures. Just saying…

Thing is that the scenery looks better, but Driveclub makes me appreciate Forza and Project Cars even more, knowing they run at 60 fps and the same resolution.

That's quite praiseworthy. Still, for an arcade racer, as someone pointed out before, 30 fps is enough.

When I purchased NFS Hot Pursuit for the Xbox 360, the game ran bad to me, as I was used to Forza, and I could notice frames jumping around at times, but I was at my peak of my 60 fps era, perhaps.

Games like F-Zero for instance, need 60 fps no matter what, and if they could run at 120 fps I'd sacrifice everything for that. But those can do with very basic geometry and simple shaders, of course.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Its like people never played PGR, Forza Horizon, or basically any NFS or Midnight Club game before in their entire lives lives at the start of the last generation. I swear i didn't hear this much garbage coming back then about these kinds of minor things.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I swear i didn't hear this much garbage coming back then about these kinds of minor things.

Night Driver. Atari 2600. 1976. 60 frames per second baby!

 

[Npl]

...
That's quite praiseworthy. Still, for an arcade racer, as someone pointed out before, 30 fps is enough.
...

Uhh.. why would that be, especially compared to driving "simulators" which generally have much less chaotic and predictable "gameplay" and necessary reaction times.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Night Driver. Atari 2600. 1976. 60 frames per second baby!

I mean before this generation about 3D graphics concessions on consoles in relation to framerate. As graphics get better, devs have made different priorities.

Its been happening steadily for a long time, i just don't see what's so different about now that a big fuss is raised by outside parties.

Chances are if you care about that kind of thing you already have a PC that does 60fps pretty easily in most games. Us console only owners are usually sure what we're getting into. It comes with the territory

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean before this generation about 3D graphics concessions on consoles in relation to framerate. As graphics get better, devs have made different priorities.

You don't need to preach this to me, for the most part I'm happy with dazzlingly good-looking racers at 30fps. It's just the crazy fast racers like Wipeout where I would demand 60fps because your progress down the tracks simply too great for anything less.

 

[djskribbles]

Uhh.. why would that be, especially compared to driving "simulators" which generally have much less chaotic and predictable "gameplay" and necessary reaction times.

IMO, racings sims require 60fps because it greatly helps with responsiveness, which is very important, especially at high speeds. You need to have a good feel for the traction of your tires and the driving physics, which racing sims do a good job of through force feedback. Arcade racers are, as you say, chaotic and unrealistic and you're basically drifting around every corner. DriveClub appears to be in between, but it seems to be more of an arcade racer. So with that said, I think it's fine that they chose 30fps. IMHO, it looks quite a bit better than any other console racer I've seen (particularly the environments and lighting), and that includes the recently released Project CARS PS4 screens. But that's to be expected since it's 60fps and it's multiplatform. Looks great for 1080p/60fps though.

 

[Npl]

IMO, racings sims require 60fps because it greatly helps with responsiveness, which is very important, especially at high speeds. You need to have a good feel for the traction of your tires and the driving physics, which racing sims do a good job of through force feedback. Arcade racers are, as you say, chaotic and unrealistic and you're basically drifting around every corner. DriveClub appears to be in between, but it seems to be more of an arcade racer. So with that said, I think it's fine that they chose 30fps. IMHO, it looks quite a bit better than any other console racer I've seen (particularly the environments and lighting), and that includes the recently released Project CARS PS4 screens. But that's to be expected since it's 60fps and it's multiplatform. Looks great for 1080p/60fps though.

Well, to me the simulators are mostly about memorizing the track layout and car physics. So once you approach a segment you replay memorized sequence #177 with maybe little adjustments.
This is something that needs little adjustments once learned, just like real life. The only time you need fast responses if things go wrong, and in sims this is usually because you did something really wrong and not a "bit wrong" because of longer input latencies.

In arcade racers the pace just tends to be alot higher. I think its similar to comparing a sniper simulator vs. a twitchy shooter.
While its probably wrong to say a simulator wont gain from 60FPS, I really doubt it needs it as critically as an arcade racer which is precisly about fast decisions and responses vs learning the physics.

 

[djskribbles]

Personally I think it's the opposite. I think arcade racers are more predictable because the physics are very simple. With sims, I don't think it's just about memorizing tracks and brake points etc. When you're racing high powered RWD cars on a track like Nurburgring (especially in rain), responsiveness and reaction times are very important. Getting a good feel for the traction of your tires is key in getting good lap times (ie when you're gripping and when you're not, when you should give it gas and how much, or when to let off etc.). And every car is different in how they handle, and weather effects and what tires you use (as well as the condition they're in) greatly change things as well. Game makers seem to agree since almost all racing sims are 60fps and almost all arcade racer are 30fps.

 

[tuna]

Real arcade racers (the ones you find in an arcade) are all 60 fps and have been since Daytona (or even Ridge Racer). Crappy supposedly accessable console racing games seem to go for 30 fps for reasons I can't comprehend.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Crappy? PGR has always been perfectly playable, as well as Forza 1, and Horizon, and many other racing games for many years. I think its a mistake to come in with such a condescending view of them right off the bat.

You obviously can feel and tell the difference between 60 and 30, but that hasn't stopped anyone from buying.

 

[tuna]

Crappy? PGR has always been perfectly playable

I have high standards, "perfectly playable" is not enough for me.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Perfectly playable doesn't = crappy though. It may not be enough for you, but 99% of people don't really have an issue with those kinds of concessions if the game isn't based around a particular framerate. If a game has twitch gameplay like a majority of fighting games, and many action games for example then you feel it when the delay is there. You can't compare a DmC to a DMC1-3 in terms of responsiveness. But that's also because DmC was casualized and made much easier than those earlier games.

Something like Burnout for example would be compromised by going 30fps.
But i don't think casual arcade racers like NFS, PGR and this really are affected that much. Sure 60fps would be nice to have, but the trade off the developers have made seems fine to me, especially considering that their previous games were 30fps as well. Its not as if i suddenly expect them to change course.

Its why i didn't think it was neccesary for guerrila to go back and forth wishy washy with multiplayer being 60fps and singleplayer being 30+ maybe but only in certain scenarios. If your previous games were based on a certain target, there's no reason to stress about not passing some arbitrary limit when the previous Killzone games were all fine at 30fps as well.