Yet another PC vs Console price thread *spawn

[HokutoNoKen]

The next-gen Digital Foundry PC: chasing the 1080p60 dream

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-next-gen-digital-foundry-pc

PS4 win?

/ Ken

 

[pjbliverpool]

The next-gen Digital Foundry PC: chasing the 1080p60 dream

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-next-gen-digital-foundry-pc

PS4 win?

/ Ken

In what respect was the PS4 even competing in that article?

It was never about trying to match the price/performance ratio of the PS4 because it's quite frankly, unbeatable in that regard right now (and probably for a long time to come).

 

[KKRT]

In what respect was the PS4 even competing in that article?

It was never about trying to match the price/performance ratio of the PS4 because it's quite frankly, unbeatable in that regard right now (and probably for a long time to come).

I dunno, 750Ti gives similar performance and would get spec from the article into 400£ range.
It also depends of the country, for example in Poland the difference between similar [slightly better] spec'ed PC to PS4 is only 50E.
Current gen consoles do not have price superiority like they used to have in past generations. The difference is at most cost of two full retail games.

 

[djskribbles]

At newegg.com, the cheapest I could build a system with a 750 Ti would be over $670.

-FX-6300 - $119.99
-Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2 - $47.99
-MSI 750 Ti - $149.99 after rebate ($10 rebate)
-Cheap Gigabyte case - $23.99
-Corsair CX430 - $39.99 after rebate ($20 rebate)
-Kingston 2x4GB DDR3 1600 - $64.99
-WD Blue 1TB - $59.99
-LG BD-ROM - $49.99
-Windows 7 64-bit OEM - $99.99
-Logitech MK120 kb/m - $19.99

I could have went a bit cheaper with the motherboard, RAM and maybe the PSU, but I'd rather stick with decent brand names. Can probably shave some dollars off by shopping elsewhere, but it would still be significantly more expensive than a PS4.

Here in Canada, again at newegg.ca, a similar build would be ~$760.

 

[KKRT]

Yeah, USA has nice value, because PS4 is the cheapest there, where in Poland it costs 480E

To be fair, You dont need bluray drive and can get OS cheaper

 

[Rangers]

At newegg.com, the cheapest I could build a system with a 750 Ti would be over $670.

-FX-6300 - $119.99
-Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2 - $47.99
-MSI 750 Ti - $149.99 after rebate ($10 rebate)
-Cheap Gigabyte case - $23.99
-Corsair CX430 - $39.99 after rebate ($20 rebate)
-Kingston 2x4GB DDR3 1600 - $64.99
-WD Blue 1TB - $59.99
-LG BD-ROM - $49.99
-Windows 7 64-bit OEM - $99.99
-Logitech MK120 kb/m - $19.99

I could have went a bit cheaper with the motherboard, RAM and maybe the PSU, but I'd rather stick with decent brand names. Can probably shave some dollars off by shopping elsewhere, but it would still be significantly more expensive than a PS4.

Here in Canada, again at newegg.ca, a similar build would be ~$760.

You could cut a few corners...I dont know but PC GAF is always talking about these $20 Windows 7/8 keys on reddit (probably student discounts or something, they love ripping off MS). Or if you already have a PC like almost everybody should you can use that license. you dont actually need a BD drive on a PC, you dont really need a DVD drive either since it's mostly steam nowdays.

Anyways at least cut the price to $620 because you dont need a BD Drive. IIRC when I was trying to build the $500 PC I went with some Athlon X4 thing, that was maybe $70-$80, that would shave another 40 off your price. Of course I think I was just trying to match One/PS4 in theory, not actual measured games performance, and who knows if that X4 would be enough to pull 60 FPS.

I love pricing PC components much more than actually playing PC games so I'll try my hand again later. I remember last time I built the perfect $500 PC, but it took every last ounce of effort

Also a 750 Ti should be more powerful than the ~7850 in PS4. If we just went for a 7850 that would again save us more, I think they are around $100-$110. But again I guess it depends on if we're trying to match theoretical specs or measured performance and I'm not sure how measured performance would go there.

 

[djskribbles]

It wouldn't be completely fair to remove the BD-ROM, because that removes a feature that the PS4 has (BD playback) which at least some PS4 owners use. And it also removes the option of not going digital (which not everyone wants to do, myself included). I also forgot to include a wireless adapter, which is another ~$15 or so.

You could cut a few corners.

Of course you can, I even stated so. But it would still be considerably more, at least in North America. I just went to newegg to simplify things.

I love pricing PC components much more than actually playing PC games so I'll try my hand again later. I remember last time I built the perfect $500 PC, but it took every last ounce of effort

Heh, I agree with you there, at least sometimes. I've built many HTPCs and some gaming rigs for family/friends and I also like pricing out systems (and building them).

Also a 750 Ti should be more powerful than the ~7850 in PS4. If we just went for a 7850 that would again save us more, I think they are around $100-$110. But again I guess it depends on if we're trying to match theoretical specs or measured performance and I'm not sure how measured performance would go there.

The PS4's GPU is a bit better than the 7850 AFAIK, and the 7850/750 Ti trade blows according to Anandtech's GPU bench:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1076?vs=1130

Simply going with a 750 Ti or 7850 may give you similar performance now, but with more console specific optimizations, the PS4 should be able to hold up better in the long run. So if anything, you would need to go with a more capable videocard if you want to match the capabilities over a ~5 year ownership period. And FWIW, the cheapest 7850 at newegg is $136.

 

[KKRT]

It wouldn't be completely fair to remove the BD-ROM, because that removes a feature that the PS4 has (BD playback) which at least some PS4 owners use. And it also removes the option of not going digital (which not everyone wants to do, myself included). I also forgot to include a wireless adapter, which is another ~$15 or so.

PC gives You tons of other benefits like backward compatibility, mods, free online, multitasking, better media handling etc. You wont have feature parity in PC vs console comparison, its not possible.

The PS4's GPU is a bit better than the 7850 AFAIK, and the 7850/750 Ti trade blows according to Anandtech's GPU bench:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1076?vs=1130

It has less CUs than PS4's GPU, but much higher clock and can be easily overclocked.

 

[djskribbles]

PC gives You tons of other benefits like backward compatibility, mods, free online, multitasking, better media handling etc. You wont have feature parity in PC vs console comparison, its not possible.

I'm not trying to achieve feature parity with a PC, I'm doing the opposite... I'm pricing out a PC that achieves feature parity with the PS4. Not only is a BD-ROM needed for BD playback, but not every gamer wants a digital only gaming machine, therefore, a BD-ROM is needed (or at least a DVD-ROM).

It has less CUs than PS4's GPU, but much higher clock

So which is better? The PS4's GPU AFAIK. 1.76TFlops vs 1.84TFlops. And again, that ignores console specific optimizations. Let's see which holds up better in the long run.

and can be easily overclocked.

What's your point? Is the average joe going to overclock their video card? The average hardcore PC gamer probably will, but the average gamer? Probably not.

This isn't a PC vs console pissing match, that's another topic. Of course PC is capable of more, but there are other reasons to buy a console. Again, I'm simply pricing out a system with similar features/capabilites and trying to show the PS4's value. No need to get so defensive. Are you trying to say that the PS4 is not a good value? If so, then agree to disagree. I'm not going to get into a PC vs console war.

 

[Cyan]

At newegg.com, the cheapest I could build a system with a 750 Ti would be over $670.

-FX-6300 - $119.99
-Gigabyte GA-78LMT-S2 - $47.99
-MSI 750 Ti - $149.99 after rebate ($10 rebate)
-Cheap Gigabyte case - $23.99
-Corsair CX430 - $39.99 after rebate ($20 rebate)
-Kingston 2x4GB DDR3 1600 - $64.99
-WD Blue 1TB - $59.99
-LG BD-ROM - $49.99
-Windows 7 64-bit OEM - $99.99
-Logitech MK120 kb/m - $19.99

I could have went a bit cheaper with the motherboard, RAM and maybe the PSU, but I'd rather stick with decent brand names. Can probably shave some dollars off by shopping elsewhere, but it would still be significantly more expensive than a PS4.

Here in Canada, again at newegg.ca, a similar build would be ~$760.

I am actually in full agreement with you, and that's exactly what I thought when I read the article. I very much prefer the classic DF articles 'cos these ones are totally unfair with consoles.

I love the PC more and more everyday, that's for sure.

DF staff has made great contributions, like telling us the truth about the resolution of Titanfall, the Xbox One resolution gate controversy.

They also showed us how Aaron Greenberg didn't lie about Ryse, :smile2: and how Microsoft looks you in the face and is an upright company at least --unlike say typical Sony/Guerrilla 'cos they engage in double dealing, and stab you in the back. Not to mention how much you can learn from DF.

Still, this article forgets to point out some aspects when, firstly, consoles have unfinished drivers for now, and secondly, they don't mention that if you want a gaming PC, it's not all about your graphics card and your CPU.

How much does it cost an OS to make that hardware work?

How much a new gamepad or a PC adapter for your controller?

What about the crap sound that comes out of those PCs with generic chips like Conexant Smartaudio that don't hold a candle to next gen consoles? Good soundcards aren't cheap.

What's the cost of a keyboard & mouse combo?

It all adds.

What about a camera for the PC which is like 100000000 billion times inferior to Kinect, if you want to use Twitch?

Not to mention a headset to chat online. Right?

What about the HDMI cable? It comes for free with your console. You have to buy it for your PC.

And the electricity bill? Those PCs need a lot more energy. :smile2:

No matter what they say, nothing beats consoles at power consumption/capabilities ratio.

 

[joker454]

It wouldn't be completely fair to remove the BD-ROM, because that removes a feature that the PS4 has (BD playback) which at least some PS4 owners use.

Then you have to add the cost of a 360/ps3 to the console side for backward compatibility, otherwise you are removing a feature that the pc has which at least some pc owners use.

 

[djskribbles]

What's with the selective reading? Are all PC gamers this defensive?

Fine, take the damn BD-ROM out. Happy? You still have ~$230-$240 to make up. Until then, no one has proven a point... just a bunch of PC tire pumping.

 

[joker454]

What's with the selective reading? Are all PC gamers this defensive?

Fine, take the damn BD-ROM out. Happy? You still have ~$230-$240 to make up.

What do you mean, I totally agreed with you! You brought up missing features, hence why you have to add a 360/ps3 to a new consoles cost to match up the missing features exactly as you suggested.

 

[djskribbles]

Ok, if you want to continue down this childish path. PCs can't play Uncharted, The Order, Beyond Two Souls, LittleBigPlanet, Heavy Rain, Ratchet & Clank, Resistance, Last of Us, God of War, Killzone, Resogun, MLB The Show, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Halo, Ryse, Forza, Gears of War or Quantum Break. So I guess you'll have to add a PS3/360/PS4/XB1 to your PC purchase. So instead of giving a point to the PC, we're actually taking one away. And since you can't buy a PC, set it up in 5min and have a game ready to go (again, no BD-ROM), you have to pay me $50 for my time and bandwidth. /s

If you'd actually read my posts, all I'm trying to do is show the value of the PS4's hardware in terms of gaming. I'm not saying anything negative about PC gaming. You'd only see it that way if you're a defensive PC gamer.

 

[joker454]

Ok, if you want to continue down this childish path. PCs can't play Uncharted, The Order, Last of Us, God of War, Killzone, Resogun, MLB The Show, Gran Turismo, Infamous, Halo, Ryse, Forza, Gears of War or Quantum Break, so I guess you'll have to add a PS3/360/PS4/XB1 to your PC purchase. So instead of giving a point to the PC, we're actually taking one away.

I don't get it. You wanted to add a missing feature, so I also added a missing feature. What's the difference? Your missing feature enabled bd disc playback and game disc support, my missing feature added the ability to play thousands of games. Why does one matter and the other not matter? Or are you saying only the features you think are "missing" count? I don't follow. I also don't get why you missed a gazillion pc exclusives in your game list. If you want to play every exclusive then you have to own every gaming device anyways. Unless you are saying only the exclusives you value count?

 

[djskribbles]

You don't get it because you're selectively reading and you missed the entire point of my post. You're focusing on one thing I said and trying to create an argument in the PCs favor because of it. But again, I'm not going to get into a PC vs console debate... that's NOT what I was trying to do, and I'm not going to do. There are reasons to own either (or both) and it's a matter of preference and I'll leave it at that.

 

[joker454]

You don't get it because you're selectively reading and you missed the entire point of my post. You're focusing on one thing I said and trying to create an argument in the PCs favor because of it. But again, I'm not going to get into a PC vs console debate... that's NOT what I was trying to do, and I'm not going to do. There are reasons to own either (or both) and it's a matter of preference and I'll leave it at that.

You said:

It wouldn't be completely fair to remove the BD-ROM, because that removes a feature that the PS4 has (BD playback) which at least some PS4 owners use. And it also removes the option of not going digital (which not everyone wants to do, myself included). I also forgot to include a wireless adapter, which is another ~$15 or so.

The rest of your post was about gpu tech specs. So you saying a bdrom and wireless adapter must be added to pc cost is "valid", but me saying a 360/ps3 must be added to console cost to be able to play thousands of games is "childish". That's your words.

 

[djskribbles]

You still don't get it, do you?

I also said:

I'm not trying to achieve feature parity with a PC, I'm doing the opposite... I'm pricing out a PC that achieves feature parity with the PS4. Not only is a BD-ROM needed for BD playback, but not every gamer wants a digital only gaming machine, therefore, a BD-ROM is needed (or at least a DVD-ROM).

Size 7 + bold so you can see it this time.

TO BE COMPLETELY CLEAR. The point of my post was to show the value of the PS4's hardware. Whatever features each platform possesses can be argued all day. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO. So the fact that I left out a wifi adapter is relevant. Basically everything you said is Irrelevant.

 

[joker454]

The point of my post was to show the value of the PS4's hardware. Whatever features each platform possesses can be argued all day. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO. So the fact that I left out a wifi adapter is relevant. Basically everything you said is Irrelevant.

You are right, I still don't get it. How can you possibly argue the value of something in a comparison by ignoring all the things it can't do that the comparing device can? What's the point of such an artificially limited comparison? Whatever, no point in wasting anymore time, I'll never understand this line of thinking. We may as well argue how a flip phone from the 90s is a better value than an iPhone because it's screen is protected, and conveniently ignore everything else an iPhone can do as "unimportant". Pointless.

 

[djskribbles]

I'm not ignoring anything... I'm simply making no attempt in getting into a features battle with you or any other PC gamer. Again, I was simply just showing the value of the PS4's hardware. Features can be debated all day long, which is WHY I'm avoiding a console vs PC debate.

Backwards compatibility is a very valid argument, if we were debating which platform offers the better overall value, but again, that's not what I was trying to do and what I'm trying to avoid.

late edit: While I still stand by everything I said, I do apologize as I probably over-reacted a bit.