About NVIDIA, Futuremark and HardOCP

Good post - I certainly concur with your sentiments about what a compiler should not be. If NVidia so desperately wanted a different shader - why not lobby FM for a different style of coding? More likely they did and it was too questionably un-balanced and/or proprietary so FM rejected it.

The cheat word just keeps springing to mind.

Kyle is a strange one, HardOCP always reminds me of "A little bit of knowledge is dangerous". Kyle just seems to take this to extremes.
 
hardocp will never ever be a legitimite site as long as kyle and steve allow their personal relationship to get in the way.....Way back when S3 was screwing over the public with the craptastic Savage 2000, they refused to run any news on it until it was way too late


ATi cheats in a driver, it makes the front page, Nividia cheats multiple times and they could really care less
 
digitalwanderer said:
ByteMe said:
digitalwanderer said:
ByteMe said:
[H] used to be a good link site. Now Driverheaven is better for that.

And the people at Driverheaven are not complete asshats.
I gotta respectfully disagree with you on that one BM. ;)


Which part?
The bit about "the people at Driverheaven are not complete asshats". 8)


You will notice I did qualify by saying "complete" ? Besides, you are not a mod there now, so it can't be all bad.
 
ByteMe said:
digitalwanderer said:
ByteMe said:
digitalwanderer said:
ByteMe said:
[H] used to be a good link site. Now Driverheaven is better for that.

And the people at Driverheaven are not complete asshats.
I gotta respectfully disagree with you on that one BM. ;)


Which part?
The bit about "the people at Driverheaven are not complete asshats". 8)


You will notice I did qualify by saying "complete" ? Besides, you are not a mod there now, so it can't be all bad.
Supermod, but aside from that I guess you've got a point. We didn't go our seperate ways fondly and I tend to hold a grudge. :rolleyes:
 
If NVidia so desperately wanted a different shader - why not lobby FM for a different style of coding? More likely they did and it was too questionably un-balanced and/or proprietary so FM rejected it.

I think it's not as simple as that. NVIDIA designed a GPU that simply cannot be used optimally with DX9-shaders. Namely, the FX has separate float and int units, which can be used in parallel. But DX9 does not support it, you either use full float (ps2.0+) or full int (1.0-1.3, not 1.4 because FX has to emulate that on the float units (in 32 bit mode, 16 bit does not have enough precision), since it seems the int-pipeline is more or less literally copy-paste work from the GF4-design).

Personally I would say that this actually means the card is not a DX9-card. "Real" DX9-cards, such as the R3x0, Volari and DeltaChrome have only one pipeline, which handles floats only, and int-shaders are simply emulated by these float-shaders. That's why they use 24 bit precision. The 16 bit mode of NVIDIA makes no sense, since it's not precise enough for int-emulation...

Sure, NVIDIA's dedicated int-pipeline is really fast, but they have only 4 of them on the card. 8 float pipelines are about as fast anyway, if not faster. Besides, the future is not int, it's float. So NVIDIA really took a wrong decision in the design. They chose to bolt-on a float-unit to basically a GF4-design... It's great for simple int-shaders, but it dies when you use too many floats. All other manufacturers did the opposite... A bit less int-performance, and full float-performance, this was also the intention of the DX9-standard I suppose. And since NVIDIA took so long to release the FX, the future is now... There already ARE full float-shaded games.

Anyway, to get to the point... Optimal shaders for the FX are a mix of int and float operations, and these simply cannot be expressed in DX9. So the shaders they replace the DX9-shaders with, are probably impossible to integrate into the original application anyway. They basically HAVE to do shader-replacement, the DX9-shaders don't suit the FX (or the other way around?). You can only do this in OpenGL, with their custom extensions. Doom3 also does this... Sadly, the performance still is not too great, and the quality is less aswell.
 
Wow INQ just hosed Kyle.

HardOCP
We used to like HardOCP. We probably still would if we ever looked at it. But Kylie Bennett quite deliberately went out of his way to ignore us at Computex this year because he's still apparently smarting over comments Paul Hales made about his site a thousand years ago. What a stubborn old goat!

Stubborn, Arrogant and Wrong is now way to go through life ....Kylie.
 
Re: Wow INQ just hosed Kyle.

Yonex said:
HardOCP
We used to like HardOCP. We probably still would if we ever looked at it. But Kylie Bennett quite deliberately went out of his way to ignore us at Computex this year because he's still apparently smarting over comments Paul Hales made about his site a thousand years ago. What a stubborn old goat!

Stubborn, Arrogant and Wrong is now way to go through life ....Kylie.
Uhm, no offense intended but who are you refering to when you say "We used to like HardOCP"? :|
 
Re: Wow INQ just hosed Kyle.

vb said:
digitalwanderer said:
Uhm, no offense intended but who are you refering to when you say "We used to like HardOCP"? :|

http://www..theinquirer.net/?article=13094
Thanks, I hadn't read that yet. I have a weird feeling that article is going to get it's own thread. ;)

BTW-You put an extry "." after the www, it drove me bonkers trying to get the link to work. (I'm still drinking me morning coffee and haven't washed all the fuzzies out of me brain yet.) http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13094 for others having troubles. :)
 
Re: Wow INQ just hosed Kyle.

Yonex said:
HardOCP
We used to like HardOCP. We probably still would if we ever looked at it. But Kylie Bennett quite deliberately went out of his way to ignore us at Computex this year because he's still apparently smarting over comments Paul Hales made about his site a thousand years ago. What a stubborn old goat!

Has anyone seen the tagline on [H]'s front page since that was published?

We hurt Mikey's feelings. Aw.

:p

(Mikey of course, being The Inquirer's head honcho, and the guy who wrote that piece, Mike Magee)
 
Re: Wow INQ just hosed Kyle.

digitalwanderer said:
And that in a nutshell is why I'll never truly be able to utterly despise Kyle, I like his sense of humor. :LOL:
True, you can't hate someone this entertaining.
That'd be like kicking a puppy. :cry:
 
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