AMD demonstrates Freesync, G-sync equivalent?

[Rurouni]

I have this annoying sync problem on multi display clone setup where the PC can only sync with 1 display and the other display is tearing. It might be a Win8 problem or AMD problem (Kaveri). I think I don't have this problem on XP using AMD IGP (Athlon X3). Because of my problem, it got me thinking...

What's going to happen with this A-sync or G-sync in multi display environment? The scenarios are:
1. 2 or more display all sync capable (exactly same spec).
2. Same as above, only different spec (one maybe tops at 60Hz, other at 120Hz).
2. Only 1 display is capable of sync.

I assume for no. 1 shouldn't be a problem but you never know.
For no. 2, if I remember correctly, for A-sync they propose several range of sync. Can the higher refresh rate display adapt to the lower range of the lower refresh rate display? This is probably a display manufacturer problem, but again, you never know for sure.
For 3, maybe you can't use sync at all and just use it as regular v-synced display. Or it will sync at the expense of tearing on regular display?

Edit: sync capable is A/G-sync display. Regularly display is non A/G-sync display.

 

[lanek]

attention, just because i see many using the term of adapative-sync, Adaptative sync is not Free-sync. Adaptative-sync is referring to the standard vesa who let control the v-blank state from the gpu. It is what need Free-sync to work.. its 2 different things.

As for multiple monitors display. Seriously i have absolutely no idea if it will work or not. I dont think g-sync is working with multiple monitor setup yet. And i cant tell if this will be the case for Free-sync. In the case of Eyefinity, i can imagine, this will addition a big problem, each monitors will need to be sync to the gpu for the v-blank state, but they could be in different state at the same moment, implying you need to treat every monitors separately and im not sure this will not create distortion ( visible or not ) between the frames displayed on the different monitors.

 

[MfA]

1440p is a resolution not a refresh

That's not what I meant, I just used 1440p's as a nickname for the many different "overclockable" (ie. multisync) 1440p monitors coming out of China (the catleap was the forerunner of these).

 

[lanek]

That's not what I meant, I just used 1440p's as a nickname for the many different "overclockable" (ie. multisync) 1440p monitors coming out of China (the catleap was the forerunner of these).

I understand now what you will mean, but Thoses monitors dont come from china and are from Corean brands ( Catleaps and other ) and are all based on the PLS Samsung Panel, who allow ( if the electronis dont delete it ) to be overclocked ( basically you can set any hz you want ), ( Not every PLS panel can support their max 144hz, but you can have good result ).. ( I use myself this panel on a different brand monitor, and outside overclocking and available on cheap monitor ( who is not the case of my monitor who is in the 1000+ $ ), i can tell it is excellent ( well over the IPS ( LG panel ) i have try .. Mine is hardly overclockable, and maybe with this cheap corean monitor i could have obtain the same, caliber the color, using color sustainer softwares for games and overclock it maybe... ( without maybe some little things who are in this pro monitor as an excellent uniformitiy, low bleeding backligh and a good design and stand ) .. i have do my choice.

Anyway...



In the case of overclocking the monitor panel, this is to choose a different / higher level of refresh sync.. this allow the monitor to dont be tied t 60hz, but to allow the display rate to 120hz without remove the v-sync.. but you set the complete refresh of the panel at 120hz-- you dont allow it to change it dynamically and scan the v-blank state, for be sure when it will send the frame it will be displayed correctly .. WHen you overclock the panel, what you do is set an higher refresh rate ( 120-128-112hz whatevere ), but it is a fixed time you set manually... Vesa standard adaptative allow you to dont set it at all... and the gpu is setting it for the monitor.. If the concept can look similar, the result is completely different.. in a case you set the v-blank state of the monitor to refresh every xxxx second, in the second case you tell him to dont do anything .. again the Vesa 1.2a DP support is just here to say to the ASIC that it have not anymore the control of it ( it put this control on off ( like is writed in the code added who is really simple in the vesa standard .... = 0 ( this will be next a setting you can enable or not in the monitor OSD, enable this or not ( its part of the standard ) .

Bascially, this is exactly what is doing the FPGA from Nvidia.. it remove the control of the monitor about the displaying refresh rate, store the frame in his memory ( buffer ), and when the v-blank is on off ( the gpu / g-sync scan/ poll it ) it is sure it can send the next frame for be displayed by the monitor .

I start to believe that Nvidia could have take the road of AMD .. ( dont forget AMD have buy ATI, and ATI had allready develop the adaptive sync and patent it more of 10years ago, including nearly the concept of Freesync ), but they wanted add it as a features of Nvidia brand, and instead of pass the standard of VESA to adaptative sync, they have prefer go around the standard of DP and provide a FPGA card who remove the limitation of the ASIC monitor about the v-blank state control... hard to say, but what is doing this FPGA card is just exactly what is doing this simple line of code added in the VESA standard ... ( it do a bit more for be honest, as the frame is not retained in the gpu ouptut, but in the memory of the FPGA card and certainly help on the scan of the v-blank sate( at contratri, this imply a latency of 1ms as the gpu need to scan the state of the v-blank continously, in reality it certainly only scan the infromation of the g-sync card who is replacing the electronics responsible of it ) .

 

[MfA]

In the case of overclocking the monitor panel, this is to choose a different / higher level of refresh sync.. this allow the monitor to dont be tied t 60hz, but to allow the display rate to 120hz without remove the v-sync.. but you set the complete refresh of the panel at 120hz

The computer doesn't set anything on the monitor, it just rams the pixels down the monitor's throat (which may proceed to swallow or throw up if you excuse the tortured metaphor).

 

[imaxx]

The computer doesn't set anything on the monitor

as far as my memory goes -yes, you do. Your HDMI driver should not only read data, but also deal with them (i.e. CEC).

 

[MfA]

Actually it's in the (potentially optional) AVI Infoframe ... but for OC'ing what you set doesn't matter as far as refresh goes, you just stuff a different pixel rate and refresh rate down it's throat.

 

[LordEC911]

PCPer article on Free-Sync Demo at Computex.

AMD is at Computex and of course is taking the opportunity to demonstrate a "FreeSync" monitor with the DisplayPort 1.2a Adaptive Sync feature at work. Though they aren't talking about what monitor it is or who the manufacturer is, the demo is up and running and functions with frame rates wavering between 40 FPS and 60 FPS - the most crucial range of frame rates that can adversely affect gaming experiences. AMD has a windmill demo running on the system, perfectly suited to showing Vsync enabled (stuttering) and Vsync disabled (tearing) issues with a constantly rotating object. It is very similar to the NVIDIA clock demo used to show off G-Sync.

The demo system is powered by an AMD FX-8350 processor and Radeon R9 290X graphics card. The monitor is running at 2560x1440 and is the very first working prototype of the new standard. Even more interesting, this is a pre-existing display that has had its firmware updated to support Adaptive Sync. That's potentially exciting news! Monitors COULD BE UPGRADED to support this feature, but AMD warns us: "...this does not guarantee that firmware alone can enable the feature, it does reveal that some scalar/LCD combinations are already sufficiently advanced that they can support some degree of DRR (dynamic refresh rate) and the full DPAS (DisplayPort Adaptive Sync) specification through software changes."

Video of said demo can be found here.

 

[lanek]

Since the Variable refresh rate ( i should say dynamic refresh rate ) is included in Radeon since a while ( Cypress if i dont do a misstake ), can we hope that it is just a question of release a driver compatible for old hardware and it could been updated then if the hardware requirement are indeed there ?

Anyway we are speaking about mostly a 2015 thing, ( even for G-sync, as today the monitors release is completely delayed it seems or take more time than previously imagined ( maybe due to new 4K monitors who hit the market at same time )and this will bring this too on new series of gpu's.. taken the timelines peoples are really upgrade their monitors vs other hardware. it should not be a problem at this time.

Now it does require DP 1.2 on GPU side, i cant remember if old gpu's has it allready.

 

[Globalisateur]

I have not been this hyped for a new tech since the stereoscopic 3D of the 3DS.

Obviously the Youtube Computex Video is useless but it still shows that people are working on it, which is good. But we need more written testimonies & previews!

 

[Wynix]

Since the Variable refresh rate ( i should say dynamic refresh rate ) is included in Radeon since a while ( Cypress if i dont do a misstake ), can we hope that it is just a question of release a driver compatible for old hardware and it could been updated then if the hardware requirement are indeed there ?



Now it does require DP 1.2 on GPU side, i cant remember if old gpu's has it allready.

You basically answered your own question.

 

[Kaotik]

The display used is most likely this one: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7585/nixeus-vue27d-monitor-review

 

[firstminion]

The interesting bit

Even more interesting, this is a pre-existing display that has had its firmware updated to support Adaptive Sync. That's potentially exciting news! Monitors COULD BE UPGRADED to support this feature, but AMD warns us: "...this does not guarantee that firmware alone can enable the feature, it does reveal that some scalar/LCD combinations are already sufficiently advanced that they can support some degree of DRR (dynamic refresh rate) and the full DPAS (DisplayPort Adaptive Sync) specification through software changes."

 

[RedVi]

It would be amazing if my Dell U2713HM received a firmware update for Adaptive sync. I'm not holding my breath, but considering that it is still a current model I guess it might be somewhat likely.

I thought this technology would debut on 120Hz+ "gaming" monitors and would be very pleased to see it come to professional and semi-professional productivity monitors also. 60fps is fine for the gaming I do, but I hate stutter and tearing and it's almost impossible to achieve a solid 60fps on a QHD on modern games without ultra high end hardware. 40-60fps range on the other hand is very easy to achieve.

 

[silent_guy]

Android has all the facilities out of the box for in-the-field software updates, but the vast majority of handsets never gets one. Yet somehow people seriously expect that this may happen for in-the-field monitors?

Has anyone ever even heard about someone updating the monitors firmware?

 

[Wynix]

Android has all the facilities out of the box for in-the-field software updates, but the vast majority of handsets never gets one. Yet somehow people seriously expect that this may happen for in-the-field monitors?

Has anyone ever even heard about someone updating the monitors firmware?

If a company has some newly launched monitors it plans to keep selling for several months after this releases they might offer a update.

 

[RedVi]

Has there ever been a good reason to upgrade a monitors firmware in the past? I've heard of recent LG AH-IPS monitors receiving firmware updates to reduce scaler processing lag, which caused an uproar from many consumers because they only sent out the firmware updates to reviewers. Because of these practises, I'm not holding my breath, but given we are talking about more companies competing for an edge with a publicly advertised checkbox feature as opposed to something that must be measured in a review, I think it finally becomes a fair bit more likely - at least with current model monitors still on the market.

That said, I've noticed that Dell have updated their Australian site stating that a few recent monitors are DP 1.2a compatible in the tech specs. Will these monitors be Adaptive sync capable? Will all monitors listed as just DP 1.2 (like my monitor) definitely not be, or could firmware updates be a possibility for some monitors? We will just have to wait and see.

 

[madyasiwi]

Even more interesting, this is a pre-existing display that has had its firmware updated to support Adaptive Sync. That's potentially exciting news! Monitors COULD BE UPGRADED to support this feature, but AMD warns us: "...this does not guarantee that firmware alone can enable the feature, it does reveal that some scalar/LCD combinations are already sufficiently advanced that they can support some degree of DRR (dynamic refresh rate) and the full DPAS (DisplayPort Adaptive Sync) specification through software changes."

"Some degree of DDR" is a far cry from per-frame refresh rate. And of course it is "full DPAS spec" since adaptive-sync does not require per-frame refresh rate, just as Intel seamless refresh rate switching is fully eDP/adaptive-sync compliant.

Maybe someday they can show the real thing that behave exactly like G-Sync, but this one just a fake lemon. Although this would still be interesting/useful for certain scenarios and definitely an upgrade from today's standard monitors.

 

[silent_guy]

If a company has some newly launched monitors it plans to keep selling for several months after this releases they might offer a update.

In which case they could update the monitor firmware for newer production batches. I suppose they could also ask people to mail their monitor to some kind of service center for updating.

When I google "LG AH-IPS firmware update", given by RedVi as an example, I see exactly that: later versions of the same monitor with new firmware.

But firmware updates for monitors that have already been sold?

 

[pharma]

If I don't already have a monitor that supports the Displayport 1.2a standard, I'll need to buy a "new" monitor to take advantage of this "free" offering? Proper hardware scalar, standards compatibility, and R&D costs put it on similar footing to G-Sync which also requires a new monitor ....