Formula 1 - 2014 Season

[Lightman]

We have no view on previous marshal post to be sure if double yellow flag was in place there, but I've seen report that at the moment of accident Jules car was travelling at 212km/h.

On another note I'm not certain if it's race director job to mark yellow flag sectors for marshals to then comply or is it marshals making decisions about flags and then reporting it back to race director.
I think option 1 is a lot more likely and then means Charlie might have been too quick to lift double yellows in that sector.

 

[Lightman]

But so did sutil and he spun. It's unlikely that he started aquaplaning in the short straight before the turn so should not have gone straight off the way he did.

If he was already turning then he would've spun after he hit the water surely?

What if he lost it before and had a tank slapper pushing his car virtually straight?

Brake failure is of course an option but normally you don't brake there at all, just lift acceleration a bit off in that corner.

Worse would be sticky accelerator pedal causing car to push straight off the track. Only telemetry will shed some light on what really happened with the car and driver.

 

[Phil]

But so did sutil and he spun. It's unlikely that he started aquaplaning in the short straight before the turn so should not have gone straight off the way he did.

I think you're right.

The accident took place in pretty much exactly where the "E1" is labeled, but on the other side, where the interconnecting asphalt is (the grey bit). My take is still that he didn't spin completely, probably just hit standing water, lost control and the car drifted pretty much straight off the circuit, down the connecting asphalt and into the collision path of the tractor...

Just my take of course.

EDIT: This may also be interesting; the telemetry data: http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=30rmgp5&s=8#.VDG3BhbsWUl

 

[Rurouni]

One of the problem is with the definition of the yellow flag itself which is in practice, as long as you're slower, even just a little, you're safe from breaking the rule. They should just mandate certain speed (use pit lane speed limiter?)

 

[DJ12]

It was double yellow, so you have to slow right down.

From the telemetry, although I doubt it's accuracy somewhat (Looks like the FIA mobile app - or something similar) he wasn't going any faster than cars that followed.

 

[Rurouni]

How much slow is slow enough?
IIRC, Sutil said that other cars also going fast (slower because of the flag, but still fast, especially considering the condition).

 

[Kaotik]

Bianchi wasn't going "racing speed", he had slowed some 40-50 kph from earlier laps (earlier = before sutil accident) and was driving similar speeds as the rest.
The green flag was after the accident place, the danger was clear at that tower.

 

[DJ12]

The regulation is thus: Indicates danger, such as a stranded car, ahead. A single waved yellow flag warns drivers to slow down, while two waved yellow flags at the same post means that drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary.

You MUST slow down under double yellows.

It would be interesting to see the corner speeds possible at full racing speed at that corner maybe the lap before. If you look right at the start of the telemetry, bia is doing 217 kph just after the point he went off the next lap, so it's seems pretty clear he didn't slow down much for the yellows if at all.

First driver through the double yellow section after Sutil spun was chi (Chilton) who didn't go past 200 until after the scene.

Anyway, I don't like where this is taking my thought process at the present time so I'll leave it there, and just wish him a speedy recovery.

 

[Kaotik]

The usual speeds in that corner were IIRC 250kph+

 

[DJ12]

In those conditions?

I don't think so, bianchi was doing around the same speed the lap before

 

[Rurouni]

The problem is that the number, at least from my pov, is arbitrary. When you did 220kph, is slowing down to 210 is enough? Surely not. How about to 190? If a Merc can go through that part at 250, is slowing down to 200 is enough? I remember Button when qualifying somewhere (Korea 2012), he complained that other drivers setting faster times even when there was a yellow flag. The key is this "If your sector is not faster then they will not check whether you lifted, but if you set a green sector they will check if you lifted at the incident," (Button).
Btw, I'm not blaming Bianchi even if he was going fast as long as he was slowing down.

This is the wording on yellow flag

Yellow flag
Indicates danger, such as a stranded car, ahead. A single waved yellow flag warns drivers to slow down, while two waved yellow flags at the same post means that drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary. Overtaking is prohibited.

So one warns drivers to slow down, two must slow down and prepared to stop. If a driver see that the track has been cleared, even if it is still double yellow, they probably would try to slow down as little as possible because they know they wouldn't have to suddenly stop.

 

[DJ12]

He's suffered a Diffuse axonal injury according to his family.

http://www.inautonews.com/family-gives-name-of-bianchi-head-injury#.VDQCV2ddV1Y

 

[Kaotik]

He's suffered a Diffuse axonal injury according to his family.

http://www.inautonews.com/family-gives-name-of-bianchi-head-injury#.VDQCV2ddV1Y

Someone mentioned on another forum that DAI cases usually wake up from coma (like 90% of them?) but are more or less impaired ever since

 

[Pete]

Someone mentioned on another forum that DAI cases usually wake up from coma (like 90% of them?) but are more or less impaired ever since

The Wikipedia page and its source (Medscape) seem to indicate the opposite percentage.

 

[Kaotik]

The Wikipedia page and its source (Medscape) seem to indicate the opposite percentage.

Could be I just read them the opposite way by accident

 

[homerdog]

Someone mentioned on another forum that DAI cases usually wake up from coma (like 90% of them?) but are more or less impaired ever since

It's almost exactly the opposite for severe cases (this easily meets the criteria). Almost all patients never wake up or die, and those who live aren't right.

After watching the video it's hard to believe he didn't instantly die on impact. Those helmets must be made of battleship armor. 100% of impact force was directed to his face...

 

[Dave Baumann]

Those helmets must be made of battleship armor.

Carbon Fibre. They are regulated.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/helmet.html

 

[Dave Baumann]

On the hopeful side:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/10/bianchi-family-issues-a-statement-on-jules-condition/

Top Gear TV presenter Richard Hammond is a good example of a patient who made a recovery from a diffuse axonal injury and he woke up after around one week.

 

[IainF]

The green flag was after the accident, bianchi was still in the double yellow zone. He wouldn't enter the green zone until he'd actually passed the guard station.

Double yellows would also be indicated on his steering wheel.

If he was at racing speed he only has himself to blame.

Not true, if you watch the video while as the tractor starts to lift Sutils car and move it away the yellow falgs are being waved, they switch to green flags well before Bianchi's car hits the tractor with of course the tractor still well in the firing line for the corner. To me they should have called a safety car as soon as Sutil came off becasue you had marshals on the corner helping Sutil and Sutils car was in the firiing line on the outside of the corner anyway as a hazard in poor and worsening conditions. Teams were talking about switching to full wets at that time. Even after Bianchi hits the tractor the marshall is STILL waving green flags which is just ridiculous, he doesn't stop until some other dood climbs up the tower and stops him. The force of the impact throws one of the marshalls on the ground who was guiding the front of Sutils car with a tether as it was being hauled away by the tractor, one of the other marshals was standing almost directly in the path of Bianchi's car behind the treactor only about 10 seconds before he hit, a marshall easily could have been killed. The tractor at no point was out of the danger zone. F1 cars are designed to hit each other and walls, they are not designed to withstand being wedged under 2 tonnes of crane at high speed.

 

[DJ12]

Look, learn the rules. The green flag was AFTER the accident, no danger ahead so green flag is appropriate.

Flags are only valid AFTER you have driven past it. Both accidents are in a the same section, which was covered with double yellows.