Trials Fusion [PS4, XO]

[iroboto]

Hot off the GAF presses, Trials Fusion is 900P/60 on One (1080/60 on PS4)

http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/11/p...at-1080p-on-sonys-box-and-900p-on-microsofts/

I mean I guess a little disappointing with a few games at parity recently, and it not being the most graphically demanding title (looks great but, ), and Sebbi's coding genius

Watching the hordes swarm these resolution gotcha threads on GAF is funny... I dont remember the Crew's thread a few days ago getting this much attention

Sebbbi mentioned on another thread that he was doing an interview where specific tradeoffs were done and the decision process about it. Would love to read it, hopefully we don't have to wait too long.

 

[sebbbi]

and it not being the most graphically demanding title (looks great but, )

We reach double frame rate compared to the graphically demanding titles such as Infamous Second Son, Killzone (SP), Assassin's Creed and Ryse: Son of Rome.

Rough mapping:
720p @ 60 fps is slightly more demanding to the GPU than 1080p @ 30 fps
900p @ 60 fps is almost 50% more demanding to the GPU than 1080p @ 30 fps
1080p @ 60 fps is twice as demanding to the GPU than 1080p @ 30 fps

For our game, stable 60 fps is the most important thing. Pushing twice as many frames requires twice as many GPU and CPU cycles. This makes our game very demanding to the hardware.

There aren't many 60 fps locked games on next gen consoles. We are locked 60 fps all the time, not fluctuating between 30-50 fps (when things start to happen) like most of the other "60 fps" games do. Also our rendering resolutions are higher compared to these games.

 

[Scott_Arm]

60fps locked is definitely the right choice for trials. Pure skill game demanding fine motor control.

 

[Devious]

Damn, I was really expecting this to be native 1080p on XB1. Ah well, still won't stop me from getting it. Just a little disappointed.

Looking forward to your tech interview, sebbbi.

 

[Billy Idol]

I wonder if we will see a difference in AF?

 

[shredenvain]

Parity is an illusion, these two machines are not equal. Maybe when DX12 unlocks the extra GPU.

Yeah they arent equal but this whole parity thing tends to upset alot of Ps4 owners.
I wonder if people ever take into account that parity is sometimes achieved because anything extra graphically isnt called for. I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Yeah they arent equal but this whole parity thing tends to upset alot of Ps4 owners.
I wonder if people ever take into account that parity is sometimes achieved because anything extra graphically isnt called for. I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

Yes but intentionally locking the more powerful machine to the same settings/resolution/frame rate seems rather underhand to me. I'd ask the question of why limit one for the sake of the other if it requires no further work?

Honestly why would anyone do that?

 

[SedentaryJourney]

Yeah they arent equal but this whole parity thing tends to upset alot of Ps4 owners.
I wonder if people ever take into account that parity is sometimes achieved because anything extra graphically isnt called for. I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

I don't think any extra effort has been given to PS4 development over XBO. PS4 games run at better resolutions and frame rates, or with higher quality effects because it doesn't require developers stretching themselves or breaking the bank.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

I think you have this backwards. The the more complicated system will necessitate more TLC in getting performance up. We saw this on PS3 where devs had to dance with Cell to achieve cross-platform parity with 360, and often still fell short on frame rate / alpha blending effects / resolution. I would expect devs to be spending a little more time on the Xbox One versions while they're getting to grips with ESRAM.

 

[Shortbread]

Yeah they arent equal but this whole parity thing tends to upset alot of Ps4 owners.
I wonder if people ever take into account that parity is sometimes achieved because anything extra graphically isnt called for. I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

PS4 hardware is more of a straightforward design - not so time consuming on getting things up and running. XB1 just requires a little bit more finesse ...hopefully in time 3rd party developers will overcome these hurdles.

Anyhow, parity shouldn't be invoked just to make things look "equal" across system brands. I'm slightly jaded that consoles are the lead platform on many titles over PCs, but after awhile, you just don't give a damn.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah they arent equal but this whole parity thing tends to upset alot of Ps4 owners.
I wonder if people ever take into account that parity is sometimes achieved because anything extra graphically isnt called for. I understand that people tend to expect better graphics from a game on the more powerful system, but alot of developers arent going to spend the extra time and money it takes adding in extra graphical features just because the system can handle it.

Going by Sebbbi's post, 1080p60 is just as much more demanding as 900p60 as PS4 GPU > XB1 GPU, so that's where the extra power is going. There's no room for extra graphical whizz on PS4 in this game no matter how much extra budget devs might want to throw at it.

 

[Billy Idol]

I wonder if Sebbi will explain why they did go the 1080p route for the PS4 version?!

They could stay at 900p and increase AA or whatever graphic setting they want.

I know that increasing resolution is the 'easy' way to burn the extra GPU grunt...but I do wonder if Trials is a game where resolution is important?

On the other hand: increase res from 900p to 1080p makes both worlds happy: the PS crowd nods satisfied, the X crowd doesn't care because of the perceived 'no impact' without having both versions side by side.

I am really looking forward to Sebbi's interview...

 

[Rockster]

I'm sure Trials will look great. Honestly though it gives me greater appreciation for what Tector and team did. Seems quite an accomplishment and rarity on that platform.

 

[sebbbi]

I can confirm the rendering resolution difference between the next generation consoles. However in our case, the difference between the next generation platforms is very small. We are running exactly the same shaders/effects without any difference in quality on both platforms. Antialiasing and texture filtering quality is also identical. Neither console has any advantage in frame rate (vsync locked 60 fps on both). Xbox 360 is also vsync locked 60 fps. All three are butter smooth and offer the same high quality Trials game play.

I have been playing the game myself on an Ultrabook (ultra lightweight laptop). The recent PC beta patch improved the frame rate on low end GPUs by 40%, and this means that my laptop now runs the game at locked 60 fps (1600x900 resolution, "Normal" settings). We are trying to scale the PC version hardware requirements even lower in future patches, to allow more people to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to be enjoyed (at vsync locked 60 fps).

As a friendly remainder: I will not participate in any console wars. Please don't try to drag me into PS4 vs Xbox One discussion. This is a new situation for us, since we haven't been doing multi-platform development for long long time. I am not used to these kinds of debates. The last time we did simultaneous multi-platform development was in 2008, when we released Warhammer 40K: Squad Command simultaneously to Sony and Nintendo platforms. Back then everyone just enjoyed their games instead of fighting over a few extra pixels on the internet

 

[iroboto]

I can confirm the rendering resolution difference between the next generation consoles. However in our case, the difference between the next generation platforms is very small. We are running exactly the same shaders/effects without any difference in quality on both platforms. Antialiasing and texture filtering quality is also identical. Neither console has any advantage in frame rate (vsync locked 60 fps on both). Xbox 360 is also vsync locked 60 fps. All three are butter smooth and offer the same high quality Trials game play.

I have been playing the game myself on an Ultrabook (ultra lightweight laptop). The recent PC beta patch improved the frame rate on low end GPUs by 40%, and this means that my laptop now runs the game at locked 60 fps (1600x900 resolution, "Normal" settings). We are trying to scale the PC version hardware requirements even lower in future patches, to allow more people to enjoy the game the way it's supposed to be enjoyed (at vsync locked 60 fps).

As a friendly remainder: I will not participate in any console wars. Please don't try to drag me into PS4 vs Xbox One discussion. This is a new situation for us, since we haven't been doing multi-platform development for long long time. I am not used to these kinds of debates. The last time we did simultaneous multi-platform development was in 2008, when we released Warhammer 40K: Squad Command simultaneously to Sony and Nintendo platforms. Back then everyone just enjoyed their games instead of fighting over a few extra pixels on the internet

I'm not sure why I didn't say this earlier: congrats sebbbi, getting through the final Cert must always feel good. Amazing job, will buy trials fusion!

 

[babybumb]

The difference between the power of GPUs is almost the 44% that is 900pvs1080p. EDRAM or not..

If you want to go "parity" you pretty much have to go 1080p30 or cut some gpu taxing effects

 

[Wynix]

I'm not sure if you have been asked this before, but how much does the audio DSP help on the consoles? Also does the PC version take advantage of AMDs audio DSP in Kaveri/Hawaii /curious.

 

[chris1515]

900p or 1080p is not a problem they choose gameplay first and locked 60 fps!!! The game will be good on Xbox One or PS4, or 360 or PC...

 

[sebbbi]

I'm not sure if you have been asked this before, but how much does the audio DSP help on the consoles? Also does the PC version take advantage of AMDs audio DSP in Kaveri/Hawaii /curious.

On Xbox 360 we use 1/6 of the total CPU power (one full HW thread out of six) solely for audio mixing / software DSPs. On next gen consoles you would likely use one CPU core for audio, however you don't need to, since the hardware audio DSP takes care of that. Also the hardware DSP can mix more stuff than a single CPU core could ever do, allowing more simultaneous voices, filters and effects. The greatest gain in long run is that audio no longer needs to compete against game play and graphics for CPU resources (often losing the battle). This will surely result in much more immerse sounds in future games (once the sound design doesn't need to take last generation consoles into account anymore).

Most games (including us) use audio middleware. Both Wwise and FMOD support AMD TrueAudio on PC. I don't have an Radeon 290(X)/260X card on my workstation, so I cannot measure the CPU gains. Most likely the performance gains would be biggest on laptop APUs (once we get new APUs with TrueAudio).

 

[Rurouni]

How do we going to know how much gain we could get from TrueAudio? Is there a switch to enable/disable TrueAudio?