Will gaming ever go 4K/8K?

There's been a whole discussion on this board on that, and yes, it is because they're that 'lame'. They've switched to horizontal res, and it's not even 4,000 pixels wide most of the time. IIRC it's because 4k comes from cinema measurements whereas 1080p et al come from TV broadcasts.
 
Rangers said:
Even if they have a significant market presence of new sets sold, you'll still have a gigantic install base of 1080P sets in people homes for years after.

And I dont know of a single affordable 4K TV. I've heard of a few decent sounding monitors coming right now, like an Asus and that Samsung, for probably $600-$800, which is still pretty cheap. Ignoring those cheap Seiki's. Even those Asus/Samsung monitors sound like the first 4K stuff that you'd actually want (single panel, 60 hz supporting, etc). That's how early this stuff is, they're literally still sorting the basics out, not ready for prime time yet.

Again you're looking at years to get significant in home penetration, if then, by which time current gen will be winding down anyway, as predicted leaving it a problem to be addressed by the next gen.
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For starters "significant" is pretty vague term, "affordable" is another one. Why would you ignore the cheap Seikis? Those will most likely get HDMI 2.0 this year also like the sets from bigger manufacturers that are hitting the market as we speak. The prices that I see over here are now about half of what they were 8 months ago. Whether 4K will be anything with regards to console gaming is one thing. Consoles might not be such a great match for them in a even longer timeframe... but there will be plenty of TV sets with that capability in 2018-19 that is for sure, certainly more than there were 720p/1080i TV's in 2005. I quoted a post saying that similar to that 2005 situation is the best case scenario for 4K and IMO that's clearly wrong.

zed said:
One question thats been bugging me, ggogling doesnt give a clear answer
why is it called 4k?
from wiki

why did they switch surely its not cause 4k is bigger than 2160, are they really that lame?
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It's a good marketing term for it. 4 times the pixels of 1080. Also the same vertical, but wider horizontal resolution has been called 4K in cinemas and 2K for 2048x1080, so that probably counted too.
 
I want better quality screens. Not higher resolution ones. Stupid industry is chasing after the wrong bullet points.
R.I.P. Plasma panels.
 
Sigfried1977 said:
I want better quality screens. Not higher resolution ones. Stupid industry is chasing after the wrong bullet points.
R.I.P. Plasma panels.
Click to expand...

Meh Plasma had that irritating 'crawl' and struggled to deliver the advertised res even if the contrast ratios were exquisite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-conduction_electron-emitter_display

SED displays were my holy grail but cheap TN LCD panels have crushed all contenders, worse we've gone from good wide gamut CCFL backlights to awful blue LED edge lighting. Am cry.
 
zed said:
One question thats been bugging me, ggogling doesnt give a clear answer
why is it called 4k?
from wiki

why did they switch surely its not cause 4k is bigger than 2160, are they really that lame?
Click to expand...
Television is counted in vertical lines, because historically the horizontal was analog, and the vertical was scanlines. The stupid HD standard was 1080i and 720p and it caused confusion in the consumer space. 1080p was never a television standard.

Film production is always the horizontal resolution, historically it was the width of the film that determined the (analog) resolution. We called the resolutions 2K and 4K before HD was even invented.

What happened is that 4K became a popular term because it's the film production industries that made a lot of publicity trying to sell new equipment, cameras, projectors, etc... The UltraHD standard came much much later. There are plenty of insufferable RED fans all over the net who are acting like Apple fans, they were instrumental in the popularity of a professional term in the consumer space. Then it's called 4K because it's already popular.

It's often determined by focus groups. People are more familiar and less intimidated by 4K, while 2160p is awkward, so then they call it 4K. They probably also decided on Ultra HD the same way.
 
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Sigfried1977 said:
I want better quality screens. Not higher resolution ones. Stupid industry is chasing after the wrong bullet points.
R.I.P. Plasma panels.
Click to expand...

Buy "better quality" (whatever that means) then. The screen manufacturers obviously think there is a market for higher resolution screens. If they are correct or not the market has to decide.
 
Unless TV manufacturers start making 80"+ TVs at affordable prices, there's no point to 4K television. You'd have to sit much closer to the TV than anyone does.

4K monitors, on the other hand, are boss.
 
UniversalTruth said:
I guess it means to buy something with the quality of a mobile display. :D

This summer World Cup from Brasil will be broadcast in 4k.

8k is said to be the final resolution, matching human vision.
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That would be some trick as there aren't any 8K broadcast cameras, even the most recent RED camera is only 6K.
 
Unless TV manufacturers start making 80"+ TVs at affordable prices
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You cant see this happening?
For a long time 26" was the largest size but over the last couple of decades the size of TVs has grown progressively larger. Why do you think this trend will stop?
The only limit will be the size of someones walls/ceilings

US average TV size
In 1997, the average TV screen size was 22-inches
2012 36-37"
2015 40" (forecast)
 
jonabbey said:
Unless TV manufacturers start making 80"+ TVs at affordable prices, there's no point to 4K television. You'd have to sit much closer to the TV than anyone does.
Click to expand...

This is a dangerous assertion. My kids sit a lot closer than I, and the reason is obvious - greater sense of immersion from the screen covering a greater angle of view. With the distance they sometimes watch the sceen from, even 8k could, if not make sense, at least provide a discernable difference under ideal circumstances.

Some people will simply shorten the distance between themselves and the screen until going closer provides no more advantages in terms of immersion for them. Typical couch-to-TV distances, and typical TV sizes, matter little for them, and both of those metrics are subject to relatively rapid change for the population as a whole.

If you are talking about market penetration, of course price is going to dictate that. UHD is brought forward as the new shiny to push people to upgrade their sets, which means that eventually the resolution will be typical regardless of size or price. In a few years they will dominate the market, just as it is almost impossible to find "HD-ready" 1280x720 screens today as they have been supplanted by 1920x1080 products.
 
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I sit 9ft from a 120" by 50" CIH display, the FoV is perfect for 2.35:1 films (which is most, if not all, films with great photography) and 1080p isn't nearly enough. I want to upgrade my projector to a real 4K and hopefully there will be a standard disc format to go with it... maybe next year once they solve the H265 issue...

The problems with games are the aliasing and the frame rate, so it's pretty stupid to do 4K now. But some games can still take advantage of 4K. Racing games require a lot of resolution in the center. Higher res works fine with racers because the angular velocity is extremely small. Once they hit 60, the frame rate can easily be doubled with interpolation. I play all 60fps games with a 120Hz interpolation and I get most of the temporal resolution advantage of 120fps. Sony's Morpheus VR has this ace up their sleeve, all they need to do now is to implement super narrow pulses on the backlight, and they solve the frame rate issue for good.
 
Lalaland said:
That would be some trick as there aren't any 8K broadcast cameras, even the most recent RED camera is only 6K.
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NHK performed the live 8K transmission from London Olympics venues in 2012 and aims to begin experimental 8K broadcasts in Japan in time for the Rio de Janeiro Olympics in 2016. Last year NHK joined hands with Brazilian commercial broadcaster TV Globo in February 2013 to shoot the Rio de Janeiro Carnival in 8K.

Is The Industry Ready?

Technology-wise, the world seems to be pretty much ready for 8K. The high efficiency video coding (HEVC, also known as H.265 and MPEG-H part 2) technology used for UHD video compression is ready and is even supported by existing encoder/decoder chips. NHK Engineering has developed 2.5” 33MP CMOS sensor capable of capturing 7680*4320 video at 60fps and has created an 8K TV camera with Hitachi. Astro introduced an 8K movie camera with NHK’s 33MP sensor last year. RED already sells 6K-supporting (6144*3160) Epic Dragon cam. There are various experimental tools for production and post-production of 8K content. Sony and Panasonic are developing new optical media capable of storing at least 300GB per disc. Unfortunately, we still lack many industry standards needed for commercialization as well as available equipment. But the industry still has years ahead of it!
What is not completely clear is Hollywood’s attitude towards 8K formats. In theory, once all technologies are ready, major studios just start to adopt them and eventually release movies created using them.
Before 8K becomes a mass market standard, 4K has to replace full-HD. The latter will happen only when decent 4K TVs will be affordable enough. The price of TV-sets depends mostly on the price of panels, so, in case of UHD 4K, the industry will need proper pricing on IGZO, OLED and other advanced panels to move forward with the new formats.

Samsung, Sharp, Phillips Demonstrate Prototype 8K Ultra-High-Definition TVs at CES.

8K TV Prototypes Make Unexpected Debut at Consumer Electronics Show

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multim...type_8K_Ultra_High_Definition_TVs_at_CES.html
 
An interesting quote in the comments(via engadget?).
4K might be used by some broadcasters, but we’re not going to do that. The problem is that 4K production facilities require a massive investment, and with 8K now on the horizon we can’t afford to do both. That’s why we’re skipping 4K and going directly to 8K.
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So NHK are skipping 4K and going straight to 8K.

The perks of having a high population on a small strip of land that are rich(by global standards).
 
What's more annoying is how some people go silly with those "what's next, 16K and 32K" ludicrous comments... :rolleyes:

There won't be 16K and 32K. :LOL:
 
First International Real-time Streaming of 4K Digital Cinema
San Diego, CA and Tokyo, Japan, September 26, 2005 –– In a demonstration that could foretell the future of videoconferencing, scientific visualization and digital cinema deployment, scientists from around the world meeting at iGrid 2005 in San Diego were treated to the world’s first real-time, international transmission of super high-definition (SHD) 4K digital video
http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/news_releases/release.sfe?id=479

Sony promises ’05 debut after 4k d-cinema’s demo 6/08/2004
Sony's debut of a prototype 4K digital cinema project brought in more than 500 industry experts to the Digital Cinema Laboratory in Hollywood.
http://www.etconsult.com/news/articles/Sonypromises05'...060804...THR.pdf

So we're looking at a good 10 years from 4k protoypes and experiments to consumer release and another couple of years yet for mass-produced displays and mainstream adoption.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
So we're looking at a good 10 years from 4k protoypes and experiments to consumer release and another couple of years yet for mass-produced displays and mainstream adoption.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, we're in the end of this so long period and just about to adopt 4K all over the globe except Japan.

So, basically, next-gen is 4K everywhere, and 8K in Japan, and these will get mass adoption virtually simultaneously.

When Europe and America decide that 4K is too damn little for them, they will join the 8K Japanese club. ;)
 
Japan is aiming for 4k at 60fps now and 8k at 120fps later. The bandwidth requirements will be horrendous. I worry this is being political forced through as a way of boosting tv sales, I think it'll end up doing the same as their old analogue HD system where only two people in the country seemed to have a compatible Tv. The boss of NHK and his mum.

The general feeling from broadcast shows is that directors are looking forward to 8k, but not for the reasons most people think. It will allow them a lot more freedom to artistically change the framing of any non studio based shot in post. Zoom, reframe and project at 4k.

I'll be amazed if the rest of the world adopts 8k as a broadcast resolution. I think it'll be a long wait and see.
 
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