Last of Us spoilers

[orangpelupa]

remember Joel brother's dialogue on the Dam?
Joel is overprotective, overly-scared of loosing someone, and it seems willing to do anything.

i dont think joel's brother are joking when he says it was a nightmare growing up with joel.



@milk
btw i prefer TLoU story than the way FinFan twist its own story. I just keep refusing to accept what i saw, what i heard, what i have done on TLoU ending.

my brain keeps trying to grasp anything, ANYTHING to refuse that ending.

why FF, why you need to kill Ellie...

the other game that make think something like this are "spec ops the line". But that game did not make me as mad as this. That game have clears answer,

Spoiler

oh, all of that happen because the main character are a mad man

 

[thatdude90210]

Story telling, folks. Joel's the one who told Ellie "we found the Fireflies." That says that Ellie didn't know they even found the Fireflies. And she didn't know why she was wearing the hospital gown. Plus, if she had any discussion with Marlene or anyone else there, she would have immediately answered Joel's "they've stopped looking for a cure."

Basically everything that happened in the hospital was without her knowledge or consent.

Joel delivered the Fireflies precious cargo against impossible odds, yet they were just going to kill him until Marlene talked them out of it. That's not the kind of people you would trust, with a cure or even their word that they can find a cure.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I've already said his actions are those expected of a father. That does not make them right from a self-less point of view. I'm not discussing this from an emotional level, but from a rational cold blooded one. To save Ellie's life he had to take half a dozen other lives from the FF including that of the Leader. How is this justifiable on a non selfish "but I felt like she was my daugher, wah wah" way?

Not half a dozen men, but hundreds on the journey to deliver her for the betterment of mankind. THe whole entry of David in he story is just to highlight how every heroic action is a villainous action too. Same goes for the end. His heroic action is villainous for some.

Leaving Ellie to die there would have been the most stupid thing to do there. There is no way those doctors who keep shifting base would ever find any cure. They wouldn't even have proper cold storage to keep dead Ellie's samples secure. Even if you look at it with a "save the world" point of view, we have a better chance if she, being the only one with immunity, survives for as long as possible to test out stuff. You can't put her existence to chance.

The fun in the end is about what happens next with Ellie and Joel and their world, not really in whether Joel did the right thing or not. The game aptly prepares you for the end.

 

[Squilliam]

The problem with this game is that it doesn't give you a choice. I hated this game because of how brutal the game is, it made me feel like a psychopath, to kill all those people in such a realistic fashion... Sometimes I wonder whether Sony 'gets' it with the mainstream market.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Sry

 

[tuna]

The problem with this game is that it doesn't give you a choice. I hated this game because of how brutal the game is, it made me feel like a psychopath, to kill all those people in such a realistic fashion... Sometimes I wonder whether Sony 'gets' it with the mainstream market.

You play as a psychopath in the game. That is the whole fucking point.

 

[szymku]

You play as a psychopath in the game. That is the whole fucking point.

I don't think so... Every time you are killing someone it is because he tried to kill you first, except maybe for the final part of the game which is basically a rescue mission.
It's all about survival

 

[thatdude90210]

The problem with this game is that it doesn't give you a choice. I hated this game because of how brutal the game is, it made me feel like a psychopath, to kill all those people in such a realistic fashion... Sometimes I wonder whether Sony 'gets' it with the mainstream market.

Considering it's Sony best selling new IP, I'm pretty sure Sony gets it. And you're looking at it from today's normal world perspective. If you do the things that Joel does today, that's a psychopath. But living for 20 years under the pandemic, where people kill "tourists" just for a candy bar or a pair of shoes, maybe it's not.

 

[milk]

Even if you look at it with a "save the world" point of view, we have a better chance if she, being the only one with immunity, survives for as long as possible to test out stuff. You can't put her existence to chance.

Very good point. That's the rationale Joel should have been having, and not "I feel like her father". Though I doubt that's what Joel was thinking at the moment. He could easily have explained all that to Marlene, and used that latter as a much better justification to Ellie. The fact he did neither makes me think he is just an impulsive overprotective maniac.

 

[szymku]

Though I doubt that's what Joel was thinking at the moment. He could easily have explained all that to Marlene, and used that latter as a much better justification to Ellie. The fact he did neither makes me think he is just an impulsive overprotective maniac.

I don't think that Marlene would accept any explanation. You've heard the diaries - it was difficult for her but she decided to kill the girl anyway. As for overprotective maniac- where I live, a person who would left a member of her family to die in such a situation would be considered a maniac or sociopath. Also Fireflays agenda for kiling one to save the others is similiar to nazi germany ideology

 

[_phil_]

If you watch the end, IMO, it's obvious that Ellie knows that Joel is lying. I'd be willing to bet that Marlene (who truly cared for Ellie and her mother before her) had informed her of what was going to happen. Likely even got Ellie's consent to do it.

Joel knows , too ,that she knows.There's clarity in both souls about that.
It's a silent mutual acknowledgement or an untold sworn oath to stick together and take care of each other.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Marlene didn't inform Ellie about anyhting, although Ellie would have agreed to die. She did say in the end that her friend died, but she is still waiting for her turn. She fears that everyone will fall prey to the infection and she will still be there watching it all. She doesn't want to be left alone.

Bt Marlene didn't tell her anything, she was unconcious the whole time. Thats why she asks about her clothes in the car.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Very good point. That's the rationale Joel should have been having, and not "I feel like her father". Though I doubt that's what Joel was thinking at the moment. He could easily have explained all that to Marlene, and used that latter as a much better justification to Ellie. The fact he did neither makes me think he is just an impulsive overprotective maniac.

Saving your family from certain death is being a impulsive overprotective maniac ? What else do you do in ur whole human existence if not care and protect ur family ?

The world sure has changed but thats a pretty strange thing to say. Anyways lets not go there, its a forum.

 

[Babel-17]

The player defends the characters against zombie-like creatures infected with the Cordyceps fungus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us

Ha, I've been taking that for a while. Interesting story behind it and you want to buy from someone using a good process.

The original "real" stuff from China/Tibet is quite expensive. That's made from insects that were taken over or infested by a fungus.

 

[milk]

TLoU happens in a post-pandemic world, were life became extremely more ephemeral, and humanity stakes are much higher. I did exagerate my wording on my description of Joel, but it was not based on his will to help his loved one, it was based on his selfish pathological reasons for doing so, and his cruel manners of achieving it.
And a father's/mother's protections can get so over the top at points that it does more harm than any good. Every parent outhere has a little bit of a sociopath in them in some ways, hehe. My mom would do some pretty terrible fucked up things given the right sircunstances, to try to save my ass. Though I apreciate that fact from my own perspective, an outsider would be corect disagree with that sort of atitude. Killing others to save your dauthy-dauther is not pretty. The life of those you are killing is just as valuable of that of your daugher, but go tell your natural intincts that... That's why I think there is a bit of sociopathy in there. But still a very common personality trait that is just part of the whole patch of evolutionary human behavorial imperfections. I'm no souless cold-hearted nazi, I'm just putting this through a emotionless and selfless filter.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'm no souless cold-hearted nazi, I'm just putting this through a emotionless and selfless filter.

Most Nazi's weren't soulless and cold-hearted, either. Some minority of them that conducted heinous experiments on live human subjects or ordered the gassing of thousands upon thousands of Jews, when they knew they did nothing to deserve it, sure.

But even some of that can get a bit cloudy from a morality aspect. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those Nazi doctors doing horrible experiments really believed they were trying to find cures for many of the diseases that humanity suffers from or trying to find ways with which to improve the human condition.

One of the pillars for the Nazi party was, after all, universal health care. Discouraging smoking, a national directive encouraging people to exercise and eat well, etc. Overshadowed, of course, by the atrocities that were done to the Jewish people.

And that's something that TLOU does a good job of illustrating. People can sometimes do some really horrible things while trying to do what they believe is the best. That applies to Joel as well as the Fireflies as well as the remnants of the government (running the "safe zones") after the fall. All of them are doing what they think is best to survive and provide a safe place for people to live.

Joel gets a bit selfish, but I can't really blame him for that as he thinks of Ellie as his daughter. Just as the common people viewed the remnants of the government trying to maintain the safezones as potentially corrupt and possibly even evil because they had to ration food. But if they don't ration the food, then it runs out, people starve, and dying from starvation is not pretty.

No, as I said before, I liked Joel all the way up until the point he decided to flat out lie to Ellie, at that point, Joel can go and die for all I care.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

hey wouldn't even have proper cold storage to keep dead Ellie's samples secure

theres too many unknows factors on FF.

keeping your only case study alive, whatever it takes, are the best option. But FF want ellie die.

their whole motive is mysterious

 

[warcrow]

Interview with Nate Wells: Art Director on BioShock 1, Infinite & The Last of Us

Howdy HO!

Hi guys.

I sat down with Nate Wells at E3 and talked to him about Thief 1, SWAT 4, The Lost (unpublished Irrational Game), BioShock, BiShock Intinite, SWAT 4, ego-less development, leaving Irrational Games 6 months before Infinite shipped, starting on The Last of Us 10 months before it ships, his inspirations & a ton more. I worked hard on this lengthy interview, but undoubtedly there are improvements that can be made. Let me know what you think. It's one of my favs. Enjoy!

http://eat-games.tumblr.com/post/55627570901/interview-nate-wells


Some tidbits:


Regarding The Last of Us

"The environment really becomes a mirror to humanity. Humanity has decayed and become infected, so has their world. It’s decayed and it’s now being overrun and reclaimed by nature in the same way their bodies are. It makes a great analog, but it also makes these incredibility beautiful moments that you’re not likely to see".

Leaving Irrational

"It ended up with me leaving [BioShock Infinite] at sort of an inopportune time, but it had just been extended 6 months and so I kind of thought I was on the timeline for when it was supposed to be finished, then I would be making the transition. It turned out to go on for 6 months after that. Which, you know, leaving those guys in the lurch didn’t feel great, and obviously I had built a lot of close relationships. Not the least which was with Ken, who I worked with for 13 years. So it was a big choice."

On SWAT 4

One of the very first missions you go to this Chinese restaurant which is under an overpass, it’s like it’s in Queens. It’s this horrible little restaurant and upstairs is an apartment which is being leased to the person you’re trying to find. You get to the apartment and it’s dirty, there’re clothes and beer bottles everywhere, a game console, and then you go into the bedroom and see that there’s this little child’s playpen. So you know there’s this horrible, dysfunctional, probably abusive family living here. The guy you’re looking for is in there, and depending on your tactic you either arrest or kill him—and that’s it. That’s it! It’s just this ugly, ugly, ugly place to be!

 

[Yemeth]

Joel knows , too ,that she knows.There's clarity in both souls about that.
It's a silent mutual acknowledgement or an untold sworn oath to stick together and take care of each other.

Yep, I had the same feeling too.

BTW, yesterday I played, for the first time, in the multiplayer mode. Very nicely done! Except I was not spending any points as I thought that the spent ones do not count, talk about playing in hard mode .

 

[Squilliam]

You play as a psychopath in the game. That is the whole fucking point.

I don't think so. The whole point is to make an increasingly realistic simulation, and then use that to kill simulated people?

Considering it's Sony best selling new IP, I'm pretty sure Sony gets it. And you're looking at it from today's normal world perspective. If you do the things that Joel does today, that's a psychopath. But living for 20 years under the pandemic, where people kill "tourists" just for a candy bar or a pair of shoes, maybe it's not.

There is a certain audience which likes that sort of thing. I am just wondering if there will be negative consequences from those people who 'hate' the idea of that kind of game. The most popular games do not involve the killing of people, and they are 'games' in the more traditional sense. If your box becomes known for popular 'murder simulation' games then it could negatively affect the sales for that company.