Svensk Viking
Regular
Used parts may also be unreliable(no warranty either), that older i7 and 580 you buy used may have been overclocked to near death levels.
How do next-gen consoles stack up against PCs for VFM? *spawn
- Thread starter bkilian
- Start date
that was my point on the rest of the post, for me it works this way also, a new VGA and I'm good to go, but for someone using an xbox 360 and some slow laptop it's a different story, you can't use the old PC and VG for anything, apart from selling (and in that case with the xbox you loose compatibility with old games, at least on the PC you can run any game you bought since the 1980's),
old CPUs are extremely reliable, even the abused ones, VGAs you are right, it's a different story, but there is also cheaper newer cards, combine some old i5/i7 with a 7850 2GB overclocked (looks like 860@1100MHz is extremely easy) and it should perform really well, faster than the 580 for less than $200, using less power.
Magnum_Force
Newcomer
My Go!
free upload
This includes a Tahiti LE, so far more processing power than either of the upcoming consoles.
free upload
This includes a Tahiti LE, so far more processing power than either of the upcoming consoles.
And £200 (4/11ths) more expensive.
When you buy a new console, you are getting new parts. Obviously used is cheaper but that goes for consoles too. In considering the VFM of the consoles, whether they are overcharging for the hardware or offering consumers a good deal, how does the 2nd parts market help understand that?
Furthermore, how do you actually cost something in eBay for anyone to use as an alternative? Imagine 5 people all want next-gen gaming boxes and you're charged with getting them suitable boxes. Are you going to find 5x identical sets of CPUs, cases, etc. on eBay? Or is the price for each client going to be different, and the end result different? What about 1 million people all wanting next-gen gaming boxes to replace their XB360s and PS3s?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
You do realize that if you go down the "used hardware" route when building your PC gaming rig that you'll also eventually be able to buy used console hardware?
And with it comes the same risks. Potential early failure compared to new hardware. Not even total failure but partial failure leading to unstable system operation.
Regards,
SB
Well you guys already reliveing future rps article correction. I'm talkig precisely about gpus 7790 and 7850 and closest from 2005 (x1800 and castrated 7800). thus wrong side of evolution ?
No you can't I have old box wolfdale @3.3and 8800gts downstairs and this is blops 2
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18784158/New folder/shot0002.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18784158/New folder/shot0001.jpg
Trying things sometimes i will tell you, only unreal 3 games are somewahat better than on console on this setup.
My old computer is a 3.2GHz Conroe + 8800GT 512MB. It runs most multiplatform games with >console settings and performance, I promise. The only problem is as mentioned previously in this thread - support for such old hardware is waning.
It isn't really debatable that 3200MHz Conroe is far superior to the XB360 CPU, and G92 is far better than Xenos.
The difference between PS4/Xbone CPU performance and that of a modern PC CPU is even greater. My i5-3550 is truly a generation beyond those 1.6 Jaguar CPUs. And on the GPU side, there is really no comparison to my GTX670... especially when comparing to the Xbone GPU.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Not to mention a power hungry CPU and video card combined with a relatively crappy case means that it's going to run hot AND significantly more noisy when gaming than even the original X360 (minus the DVD noise).
And a form factor completely unsuitable for the living room not to mention trying to get it to fit nicely into a home entertainment cabinet.
Also no keyboard or mouse to actually launch the games to be played.
PC gaming definitely has its benefits, but it also has its cons.
Regards,
SB
It just seems like y'all are overthinking this, unless it's all just for the mental exercise. If someone wants to play games they can go new or used, be it console or pc. If money is tight then on pc they can leverage lots of existing parts they already own or that others own, or on console they can go buy a used one. To cost it out you just go to ebay, sort by lowest price buy-it-now and buy the parts you need to build a pc, or the used console you want. Or go buy from wherever they sell used stuff locally. I dunno, it doesn't seem all that complex to me. But if you guys are only going new just for the sake of argument then cool, rock on but I just don't think it's realistic, I can't imagine most people would willingly forgo the used option, or that most people would willingly just rebuy a new hard drive, pc case, keyboard, etc rather than just re-use what they already have if it still works.
I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the purpose of this whole exercise, so I should probably just move on and leave y'all to it
'most people' can and do forgo the used option, just like most people forgo the build it yourself option.
If I want to buy a new device to hook up to my tv, be it console or PC, how much of my time am I expected to put into the quest? For those that enjoy rummaging through ebay and assembling their own PC that's great that you can call it your hobby and enjoy doing it. For me, I want it from box to installed and working in the minimum amount of time because I actually don't enjoy assembling PCs and installing OS and drivers (I'm quite capable and used to do it when my time was worth less, but I never found it enjoyable). I'd easily pay a premium over wasting my time looking for used parts that would probably end up saving me 1/10th of what my time is worth.
If I want to buy a new device to hook up to my tv, be it console or PC, how much of my time am I expected to put into the quest? For those that enjoy rummaging through ebay and assembling their own PC that's great that you can call it your hobby and enjoy doing it. For me, I want it from box to installed and working in the minimum amount of time because I actually don't enjoy assembling PCs and installing OS and drivers (I'm quite capable and used to do it when my time was worth less, but I never found it enjoyable). I'd easily pay a premium over wasting my time looking for used parts that would probably end up saving me 1/10th of what my time is worth.
Right, but the option is there, ignoring it doesn't make sense. The tighter you are on cash the more likely you are to build your own or go used to save money. If price is such a concern then used and/or build your own should come in to play.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That's the thing though, when price becomes an issue with regards to gaming, rather than building a PC, most would just move to consoles.
Even people that I've worked with to build a PC for gaming because the game they wanted to play wasn't available on consoles, would often complain at the cost compared to consoles.
At the time I could always mollify them a bit by pointing out that they could play at 1080p at greater detail then the console version. But at least within the launch window of the Xbox One and PS4, much of that will be removed. Going forward I expect the PC to distance itself once again from the consoles.
But, IMO, unlike the X360/PS3 launch where PC games still looked significantly better than the launch consoles and at a higher resolution, I don't think that's necessarily going to be the case with this next console launch. PC you can still have a resolution advantage if you have a suitable monitor (2560x1600 or 2560x1440 or 4k) or multi-monitor, but I have a feeling the quality of the graphics themselves are going to be pretty close unlike PS3/X360 launch.
Regards,
SB
A question on the value for new hardware that the console provide, and whether they remain the cheapest way to get new gaming gear or whether they are no cheaper than a PC. The next step is how long the consoles remain price-competitive as PC hardware advances.I guess what I'm saying is I don't understand the purpose of this whole exercise, so I should probably just move on and leave y'all to it
A discussion on the price of switching to PC gaming has already been had, and there, for an individual, 2nd hand parts make absolute sense. That cannot scale up to satisfying millions of gamers though, making it moot for replacing consoles with PCs. And interestingly, the more people who start shopping for 2nd hand parts, the higher the 2nd hand parts will sell for, while increased demand would lead to a decrease in the cost of the new components. The PC second-hand market won't be stable and offer the same low prices if fully exploited, changing the nature of the comparison.
www.techpowerup.com said:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670_Direct_Cu_II/27.html
I can promise you, even under load this PC is whisper quiet and that's sitting a foot away from it. If you buy carefully, it's not difficult to get a very quiet PC withough spending money on custom solutions.
Is it really necessary to match the X1 on noise levels though? Afterall it's designed for a different environment. Are people going to be adding a value amount to the PS4's likely louder cooling system? As long as the PC is comparable in noise levels to say the PS4 or current generation consoles then that to me is perfectly acceptable from a noise point of view. I think going beyond that to say it must exactly match or exceed the X1 for the value argument to be valid is taking things to far. People can argue minutiae all day, e.g. can the X1 connect to two displays at the same time, will it drive a DVI powered monitor? Can I run excel on it etc.... but I think all that's pretty pointless. What were looking at here is power vs cost. It's valid to consider noise and arguably size as part of that comparison to a certain degree but only up to a point IMO.
I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm not trying to claim that the PC option is universally better. The only claim I've made around that is that you can match the price/performance ratio of the PS4 at double the price which given the PS4's incredible price/performance ratio is impressive.
I thought I made it clear that whether that's something you should (or even could) or shouldn't do is a matter of personal preference and not the automatically better option with the following statement:
"Whether paying twice as much for 2x the performance is the right decision for you is a matter of preference obviously"
Woah - with such a demanding GPU power wise I would expect your PSU to go pop in weeks. Otherwise it isn't actually that bad - not sure if someone already commented on your spec just reading through the thread.
I still think that if Kaveri ships in some forms with GDDR5 (or GDDR5m which could allow for 8GB of RAM) that it would be a worthy contender and allow for a "next geny" experience.
I read those 2 pretty awesome interviews Oles Shishkovstov gave to the Digital Foundry and he sort of acknowledged that 8GB of RAM is a bit pushing, which lead me to think that for budget gamers, not that performances sensitive gamers even 4GB of GDDR5. I know enthusiasts disagree and the average joe is told he needs "moar" but as far as I can tell from all the people I know... let say that 4GB is plenty...
There are review of kabini running at 1.5GHz and if AMD hold on its promise with Streamrollers, a two modules set-up running at sane should be definitely "good enough".
If those APUs are unlocked with a "rebalancing" of the power budget toward the GPU, I could actually consider that set-up as a cheap Steam-box.
Anyway, Kaveri is not out, price is unknow. the same applies to GDDR5 or GDDR5m but my feel is that PC could get competitive sooner than later.
I read those 2 pretty awesome interviews Oles Shishkovstov gave to the Digital Foundry and he sort of acknowledged that 8GB of RAM is a bit pushing, which lead me to think that for budget gamers, not that performances sensitive gamers even 4GB of GDDR5. I know enthusiasts disagree and the average joe is told he needs "moar" but as far as I can tell from all the people I know... let say that 4GB is plenty...
There are review of kabini running at 1.5GHz and if AMD hold on its promise with Streamrollers, a two modules set-up running at sane should be definitely "good enough".
If those APUs are unlocked with a "rebalancing" of the power budget toward the GPU, I could actually consider that set-up as a cheap Steam-box.
Anyway, Kaveri is not out, price is unknow. the same applies to GDDR5 or GDDR5m but my feel is that PC could get competitive sooner than later.
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If you know how and/or regularly build PCs then the article isn't really telling you anything. You probably already know the answer.
The proposition shouldn't be "Can you?" but "Do you want to?". The retail price of a console is like a house listing while a list of PC components is more akin to a price list of a plot of land and the necessary building materials. Therefore, buying a console and building a PC aren't logistically similar.
You realize a capital cost savings when building a PC because you are rolling your own solution for acquisition, assembly, maintenance and support. For those that build PCs, the labor, time and knowledge/skill set involved tends to be materially irrelevant when done for self serving purposes. For those that lack knowledge/skill set and experience of building a PC, this cost may end up being impractical.
The proposition shouldn't be "Can you?" but "Do you want to?". The retail price of a console is like a house listing while a list of PC components is more akin to a price list of a plot of land and the necessary building materials. Therefore, buying a console and building a PC aren't logistically similar.
You realize a capital cost savings when building a PC because you are rolling your own solution for acquisition, assembly, maintenance and support. For those that build PCs, the labor, time and knowledge/skill set involved tends to be materially irrelevant when done for self serving purposes. For those that lack knowledge/skill set and experience of building a PC, this cost may end up being impractical.
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