Immersion versus gamyness

[Frank]

So, I was browsing my list of Steam games, and I thought: "Let's play some Skyrim! It has been more than two years, I'm sure it has been modded to high heaven by now!"

Which was a good thing, as I found out that I had to start from scratch. So, I watched a few "Let's play" episodes on YouTube and Googled a bit for the best mods, installed those and started playing. For a few hours. Until I got my gear in check. And wondered: "So, what am I going to do?"

Well, it looks nice, so I randomly explored for a bit. And I wondered: "Ok, Seen it, but what am I going to DO?"

So, I ended up re-installing Morrowind, with the superb "Graphics and Sound Overhaul", which is your current "install everything you need in one go and automated" mod. And while you see that there are less polygons in the geometry, it looks almost as good as Skyrim. And it's actually fun!

There is so much to do and explore. I still discover new things, while I've played it for hundreds of hours.


Anyway.

While it's an old argument, I was again wondering what makes Morrowind such a great game, when I came across this video.

And I was reminded, yet again, about how I really don't like the gamyness of current games. Like, how the new X-COM turned into a game of random chess, with the screen being littered by "helper" icons.

This video shows it best.


I want my immersion, dammit!

Does that make me a dinosaur? I have to go with the times? Or, simply what this video shows?


Then again, there doesn't seem to be much choice nowadays.

Fortunately, there are a lot of Kickstarter remakes we can expect this year/early next year, which are remakes of the older, loved favorites. And I don't expect to buy a single AAA game in that time.

Which is sad. Especially as I do like new and improved. It's just that the latter part, the "improved" has been "streamlined and dumbed down" in each case for the last, oh, five years or so.

I'm getting old...

 

[swaaye]

Oh here we go again. I dunno. There have always been boatloads of games I couldn't care less about. I too am most looking forward to some Kickstarter games, but there are a few AAA titles coming as well...

There are many different reasons people get into recent TES games. I'm mostly interested in the virtual world aspect. I am not much of a fantasy fan but the virtual world and strange AI inhabitants are neat-o. That said I've probably only put 30 hours into it.

I think I like nuXcom more than old Xcom. I know, lynch me now.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Depends what you mean by immersiveness, I guess. For me, menus, stats, inventory, HUDs are all pretty much "gamey". An immersive game would minimize all of those things, or do away with them completely. The focus would be on making you not think about game aspects at all.

 

[Arwin]

Depends what you mean by immersiveness, I guess. For me, menus, stats, inventory, HUDs are all pretty much "gamey". An immersive game would minimize all of those things, or do away with them completely. The focus would be on making you not think about game aspects at all.

Not a PC game example, but as big a fan as I've always been of Gran Turismo, I only just recently discovered this mode in this game (it hasn't been possible that long anyway I think in GT5). Selecting it and then choosing random weather with day-night passage on the Nurburgring is quite special.

So I am going to agree strongly - yes, gamification has both advantages and disadvantages. It can be really, really cool to completely disappear into a game, and being able to play the game hud-free definitely helps.

I've yet to play either Skyrim or Morrowind ... Are you now saying Morrowind is better?

 

[homerdog]

Morrowind can be cruel and unforgiving, but yes it is the best.

And obviously if you run into a challenge that is beyond you, which you will at times, you can come back later when you are flying through the air raining fireballs of doom

Of course first you'll have to learn how to fly...

 

[Frank]

Oh here we go again. I dunno. There have always been boatloads of games I couldn't care less about. I too am most looking forward to some Kickstarter games, but there are a few AAA titles coming as well...

Which ones? The only one I can think of, of which I'm somewhat optimistic, is the Witcher 3, as they tell us they want it to be as much open-world as possible.

There are many different reasons people get into recent TES games. I'm mostly interested in the virtual world aspect. I am not much of a fantasy fan but the virtual world and strange AI inhabitants are neat-o. That said I've probably only put 30 hours into it.

Which one?

;-)

I think I like nuXcom more than old Xcom. I know, lynch me now.

Well, at least you get to enjoy the new game. Which is as it should be.

 

[Frank]

Depends what you mean by immersiveness, I guess. For me, menus, stats, inventory, HUDs are all pretty much "gamey". An immersive game would minimize all of those things, or do away with them completely. The focus would be on making you not think about game aspects at all.

Yes, except that I like to have an inventory and a stats window, if it is an RPG. As in: the stats determine what I can do and how I do it, instead of my twitch-reflexes.

Which is interesting, because in my experience, the people who brag the most about those twitch-reflexes use consoles, and so are talking about the effectiveness of the auto-aim.

Btw, the second video in my first post is the one that shows Deus Ex game play like it would be in DX:HR.

 

[Frank]

Not a PC game example, but as big a fan as I've always been of Gran Turismo, I only just recently discovered this mode in this game (it hasn't been possible that long anyway I think in GT5). Selecting it and then choosing random weather with day-night passage on the Nurburgring is quite special.

So I am going to agree strongly - yes, gamification has both advantages and disadvantages. It can be really, really cool to completely disappear into a game, and being able to play the game hud-free definitely helps.

I've yet to play either Skyrim or Morrowind ... Are you now saying Morrowind is better?

Well, in Oblivion and Skyrim, you can do just about anything just as well at level 1 as at level 50. Your loot is leveled, and the main difference between Oblivion and Skyrim is, that in Skyrim the level sticks after your first encounter.

So, you can come back and PWN them.

But, as homerdog said, in Morrowind, you have to learn how to fly. Literally. Because, real wizards don't use stairs.

 

[homerdog]

BTW Frank is not kidding. In some of the wizard's towers and guilds in Morrowind you can't access the upper levels unless you are a badass enough wizard to fly up there. Of course you could use levitation potions, but those are very weak compared to a high level Levitation spell.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yes, except that I like to have an inventory and a stats window, if it is an RPG. As in: the stats determine what I can do and how I do it, instead of my twitch-reflexes.

Which is interesting, because in my experience, the people who brag the most about those twitch-reflexes use consoles, and so are talking about the effectiveness of the auto-aim.

Btw, the second video in my first post is the one that shows Deus Ex game play like it would be in DX:HR.

I'm definitely not complaining about stats and inventory (well, maybe inventory). Those have their place in games. They are definitely not immersive, in the sense that they make you very aware that you are playing a game. That doesn't mean they're bad. To me, they're "gamey," but I like games!

An interesting note is that the adventure game from Capy Games, Below, is coming to Xbox One and it doesn't have any text, HUD, or menus at all. You have to figure out the controls and mechanics through experimentation. There is nothing on screen but the character and the world. Not a PC game, but it is an interesting experiment to watch. Seems like it is a randomly generated sword-and-shield dungeon crawler, so a good comparison to the RPGs that normally have inventory, heavy UI, stats, tons of text, etc.

 

[Cartoon Corpse]

Hi! I'm playing Skyrim for the FIRST time now (see the "purchasing decisions" sub forum for details, IFF you're interested!)...

Anyway...I LOVE Skyrim. I needed the opportunity to vomit my ideas about it. Thanks!

They seemed to have FINALLY used elements of Morrowind (missing before?) as WELL as the gritty look of the GOTHIC series. The main reason I preferred Gothic over Elder Scrolls was the "REALISTIC" look of the time, as opposed to the Elder Scrolls "fairy" look. Still I LOVED Morrowind, and I "smell" it in Skyrim, a smell I never experienced in Oblivion.

Well done drones of the certainly bleak future!

Funny I didn't watch the video (link you offered) until AFTER I wrote this. Does that make me a bad person?

Maybe, just maybe I should mate with your sister..or mom..depending on your age.