XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Arwin]

While I am totally against DRM's and their used game policies, if I was in MS shoes I would of stuck with the policies they had instead of backpedalling off of the consumer backlash. No one would really know how it would translate into real world numbers. Had they failed, they would have a legit reason to change like poor sales. Instead people may take this change as seeing MS unclear with their ideals and beliefs. Sometimes its good to be stubborn and see if you can be prove wrong.

MS went through that period with the RROD with 360. People were still buying them after the backlash. My bet, people would of eventually gotten use to the policies. And MS would of made some hard earn dollars.

Console wars are not won by a sprint race. Its always is a marathon. You can make mistakes and recover from it.

Yes. Here's how you normally deal with mistakes:

1. you recognise you made a mistake
2. you admit you made a mistake and apologise
3. you rectify the mistake

So yeah, while there's still a fair bit of damage done to the company's image, I think they absolutely made the right decision. The negativity from many in the press regarding this policy (there are a lot of collectors in there) has put everything about the Xbox One in a negative light, with the press (and enthusiast public) having a strong desire to see things in a negative light.

So the best thing they could do is start with removing that 'desire'.

EDIT: even on Jimmy Fallon, Microsoft got punished for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csr6ahk5RMg

 

[Eolirin]

There's duff merchandise on eBay all the time. Games aren't an exception and there are forms of risk management.
Microsoft will see that the disc's serial number has appeared somewhere else, and can raise the issue with the originally registered owner.

Beyond that, the idea of accumulating karma as you pay into Live means that it can take the cost out of the share jar or assess a fee to smooth over rare snafus.

If there's some kind of widespread compromise of the license identification scheme, it'd have other serious effects if the kill switch were still in effect.

There's no way to mediate disputes without involving MS, since I can also buy off EBay, claim you sent me a disc that had been used, and no one would be able to peer into our accounts, or even associate us with them.

And it's a much more massive support headache for MS. Likely prohibitively so.

Edit: How many people do you think are willing to buy opened Steam games with just the seller's say so on the key not having been used? That's what this would look like.

For a retailer like GameStop, they'd still need all of the infrastructure that they needed before; they need to be able to quickly check whether a copy is legit. And it's much easier to revoke a license than to have an opt-in that screws up the resale experience in a lot of ways, once you already have that stuff..

 

[3dilettante]

There's no way to mediate disputes without involving MS, since I can also buy off EBay, claim you sent me a disc that had been used, and no one would be able to peer into our accounts, or even associate us with them.

The discs would be numerically different, and the server would know the serial numbers. That is, unless my recollection of Blu-ray having that option is wrong.

A fraudulent buyer could make a go at guessing it, but there are probably better scams to run.

In the other case, where the seller hasn't deactivated their license, the paywall income can provide a cushion to just write the problem off, assuming that the console didn't wander onto Live at any time after the sale.

And it's a much more massive support headache for MS. Likely prohibitively so.

Better to find out there's a fundamental problem with the identification methods used by Xbox Live from an eBay auction than from reports of random accounts being downed by the check-in servers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So yeah, while there's still a fair bit of damage done to the company's image, I think they absolutely made the right decision. The negativity from many in the press regarding this policy (there are a lot of collectors in there) has put everything about the Xbox One in a negative light, with the press (and enthusiast public) having a strong desire to see things in a negative light.

But the negativity about the policy was only in relation to disc sales. Microsoft failed to communicate their policies (particularly, the advantages), then failed to listen to the specific concerns (despite claiming that "we listen") then made a decision angers everybody who was originally happy.

Folks in this forum seem to have some blind spot about the concerns only ever relating to disc based purchases. Microsoft have lurched from one extreme policy (upsetting some consumers) to another (upsetting the other consumers). There's no technical reason they can't offer the advantages of both options, although it would no doubt require more work on their part. But we're talking about Microsoft, the biggest software company in the world, who are wanting to move to regular updates of Windows with Blue. I have utter and complete faith they could, if they wanted, to modify their original Xbox One game policies to cookie-cutter out retail disc purchases and just have those work differently.

I think the fact they haven't may suggest they (or publishers) weren't completely sold on the idea from the outset, or that they hadn't figured out how it would work in the real world.They certainly couldn't explain this after their May 22 event, nor at E3 where things like 10 person family sharing was basically 'watch this space'. It was almost like this was a last minute idea with no real thought to the mechanics.

 

[Billy Idol]

I think that X1 pre orders will rise substantially after this announcement.

I don't care about all this DRM stuff to be honest. X1 has exclusives I want to play...so there is nothing that MS can do to stop me buying a One.

Day 1 before, day 1 now.

Edit: oh, and I feel a bit sorry for MS. Now after they did what most people want, the other people immediately start moaning about lost shared library and all...I have the feeling that nowadays MS can't do it right anymore...they must be really down over at Redmond at the moment...

 

[Tchock]

If you have poor internet, you don't get fast game switching.

Not exactly 100% true. Engadget says that discs are still the delivery mechanism- aka you could use a friend's disc to install Halo 5 on your X1, and later "purchase" a digital license directly from the console without the need to download.

I assume Gamefly would love this...

 

[Arwin]

Th Eurogamer article by the way mentions that games would have a day one patch that downloads to enable offline mode ... If that is for disc based games, then you still have a one time online activation, right?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Th Eurogamer article by the way mentions that games would have a day one patch that downloads to enable offline mode...

I thought it was a one-off system update?

 

[Arwin]

Ah, right - it says 'one time system setup':

"After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again."

So at least during that one time system setup, you need to be connected, but that's it ...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I also assume that'll be for launch systems, to patch the FW, and later systems will come with later FW and no need for this update.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Edit: oh, and I feel a bit sorry for MS. Now after they did what most people want, the other people immediately start moaning about lost shared library and all...I have the feeling that nowadays MS can't do it right anymore...they must be really down over at Redmond at the moment...

Sorry? - Nah. Serves them right. Enjoy your humble pie, Don.
Anyway, the One went from "never gonna touch this thing with a barge pole" to "let's wait for a price-cut" for me.

 

[DJ12]

Well I'm sure it's not just consumer pressure that led to this, I'm sure EA and UBISOFT wouldn't like the fact they could potentially lose 9 sales of their games through the sharing feature.

wasn't it Mattrick (or MajorNelson) that was advocating abusing the system at E3? Guess that wouldn't sit well with their new business partners, EA, or any other publisher.

 

[Squilliam]

I hope they give people an option to opt-in to the 24 hour check thing. I'm kind of less interested now that I know I can't share games with my family. I understand the outcry, but I am a little disappointed they changed the system.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I also assume that'll be for launch systems, to patch the FW, and later systems will come with later FW and no need for this update.

I wonder at which stage of the console's production the firmware/OS is installed. I.e, is this done only when the boards are assembled and pass quality control, or are images cloned to drives(and firmware to flash RAM) before installation.

 

[brasnial]

I love to no the ins and outs of this what went on behind the scenes .
I'll read that book when a journalist writes the true story .

 

[Billy Idol]

But guys, honestly...isn't game sharing a bit critical? I mean, of course everyone wants game sharing...it is like free games!

But, if you can share a game to 10 other people...this potentially cuts game sales by a factor of 10. Nobody knows that if you share a game to a buddy he insta runs into the next digital shop and downloads an own copy because it is so good.

On the one hand we think that used games are evil and are reason that AAA games turn bad, on the other hand we all cheer for game sharing. Sony had game sharing and did have to dial down from 5 to 2. Maybe publishers weren't quite happy with all the game sharing stuff Sony/MS proposes and think, for us it does not matter if he shares his disc, or his digital library. Same goes for digital used games...no publisher can be happy about it.

I really don't understand what this outcry is all about nowadays...

 

[RenegadeRocks]

So, what happens to 'teh Cloud power' now ? Now that MS can't guarantee internet acces to all devs.....

OTOH, now that both consoles arw on the same turf, now there will be competition ! Sony had just got everything in their kitty before this. Frankly, I wasn't expecting MS to bow down as their intended customer, the US, woudl have still bought the box.

 

[mrcorbo]

But the negativity about the policy was only in relation to disc sales. Microsoft failed to communicate their policies (particularly, the advantages), then failed to listen to the specific concerns (despite claiming that "we listen") then made a decision angers everybody who was originally happy.

Folks in this forum seem to have some blind spot about the concerns only ever relating to disc based purchases. Microsoft have lurched from one extreme policy (upsetting some consumers) to another (upsetting the other consumers). There's no technical reason they can't offer the advantages of both options, although it would no doubt require more work on their part. But we're talking about Microsoft, the biggest software company in the world, who are wanting to move to regular updates of Windows with Blue. I have utter and complete faith they could, if they wanted, to modify their original Xbox One game policies to cookie-cutter out retail disc purchases and just have those work differently.

I think the fact they haven't may suggest they (or publishers) weren't completely sold on the idea from the outset, or that they hadn't figured out how it would work in the real world.They certainly couldn't explain this after their May 22 event, nor at E3 where things like 10 person family sharing was basically 'watch this space'. It was almost like this was a last minute idea with no real thought to the mechanics.

Let's assume this is true. It would be an obvious advantage for them to have the best of both worlds and be a potential selling point for the system that needs all of the selling points it can get to justify the $100 price premium. Why do you think they aren't doing it, then? Laziness? Spite?

 

[Pugger]

I love to no the ins and outs of this what went on behind the scenes .
I'll read that book when a journalist writes the true story .
I mean I want answers to these questions .

I'm not sure if anyone will be able to tie all the points together which led MS to it's DRM in's and out's. All I do know is there is no way MS would have considered DRM in isolation. There is a big story here and it'd probably not all of MS doing.

 

[brasnial]

I don't think there cloud plans are effected at all they will just put on the box this game requires a internet connection to function .

I expect Microsoft to slowly roll out benifits for buying digital copies of your game over the boxed version ......like free skins or DLC to try and get everyone used to going digital .
Special weekend sales they have a vision that's for sure a digital future so now they will try harder to get to there after being knock back .

They will use the cloud to drag everyone there by putting it into as many games as possible its already happening look at how many next Gen games need a internet connection for single player .