XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[eastmen]

It was more for the fear of Microsoft shutting down servers.
And now that the world transitioning into a more digital world.
I think consumers of digital goods will get more and more protection.

The drm is not an issues i have more problems with kinect..
For my part they could check in every 30 min i wont notice it.

Wondering if they will use smartglasses to check in with xbox if internet is down and mobile network is still up.

but why , the costs to run xbox one servers will only go down fro their peak as time gos on. Lets people still playing + more powerful servers will see to that. Compatability with a new system will just extend that even further.

Some how valve is able to run a DD store for the better part of a decade now. Ultima online is still up and running 16 years later.

Only MS wont find a way to keep servers going in a decade though right

 

[dragonelite]

but why , the costs to run xbox one servers will only go down fro their peak as time gos on. Lets people still playing + more powerful servers will see to that. Compatability with a new system will just extend that even further.

Some how valve is able to run a DD store for the better part of a decade now. Ultima online is still up and running 16 years later.

Only MS wont find a way to keep servers going in a decade though right

I don't know people just distrust Microsoft or its just aftershocks of E3.
If you asked me the moment microsoft announces it stop with xbox division it either meant console gaming is death and game industry had a giant bubble burst. Or the world is coming to a end and i have other issues to worry about than gaming.

 

[Davros]

When was the last time you accessed you spreadsheet for Sinclair Spectrum, for example?

5 minutes ago why do you ask ?

 

[eastmen]

I don't know people just distrust Microsoft or its just aftershocks of E3.
If you asked me the moment microsoft announces it stop with xbox division it either meant console gaming is death and game industry had a giant bubble burst. Or the world is coming to a end and i have other issues to worry about than gaming.

But why would people trust sony ? It really makes no sense they are both companies that will do whats best for their bottom line

 

[AlNom]

But why would people trust sony ?

Because Sony aren't currently involving themselves in the DRM/used-games/online-check issues?

 

[MrFox]

I don't know people just distrust Microsoft or its just aftershocks of E3.
If you asked me the moment microsoft announces it stop with xbox division it either meant console gaming is death and game industry had a giant bubble burst. Or the world is coming to a end and i have other issues to worry about than gaming.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dfc-the-entire-future-of-the-xbox-business-is-in-question/0117250

Interactive entertainment research firm DFC has delivered a scathing verdict of Xbox One’s market chances in the wake of last weeks’ incredible events at E3. In fact, it even goes as far as to question whether the scope of Xbox One’s PR failure to date could jeopardise Microsoft’s entire games operation.
DFC’s Forecasts for the Video Games Market report says that “Microsoft's overall strategy for entertainment devices is deeply flawed”.
In turn it has stated that it is likely to raise its PS4 sales forecasts and on turn “further lower” its Xbox One predictions in its upcoming August market update.
“So far this has not had a major negative impact on the Xbox business but that is likely to change with the Xbox One launch,” DFC’s David Cole stated. “Right now the entire future of Microsoft's consumer entertainment business is in question and that is likely to have a major impact on the game industry.”

At some point, some investors said Microsoft should sell off the xbox division. Microsoft said they'll exit the gaming business before selling it. What happens when they exit the gaming business? Exactly the same thing as when they exited the music DRM business. They'll shutdown the servers.

They say that asking for BC is backwards, who wants to play old games anyway? That's a scary perspective about how long they'll keep the servers up.

In an interview, Major Nelson was asked about servers being eventually shutdown just like they shutdown the original xbox servers. His answer was something like "hey we're just launching this thing and you want to talk about when we'll shut down the servers? Come on!". Didn't answer the question.

OTOH, Sony doesn't need trust. They designed the system to be untethered, therefore I don't need to trust them, I don't even need them to exist.

 

[eastmen]

Because Sony aren't currently involving themselves in the DRM/used-games/online-check issues?

but sony has in the recent past. PSP GO , No forward compatibility with DD on ps3 to ps4. Lets not forget they spent a generation ripping out features of their console to reduce price.

Sony have proven they will do anything to improve their bottom line.

 

[manux]

but sony has in the recent past. PSP GO , No forward compatibility with DD on ps3 to ps4. Lets not forget they spent a generation ripping out features of their console to reduce price.

Sony have proven they will do anything to improve their bottom line.

For sony you can just buy the game and play. There is no need to use sony server to activate and licence every 24 hours. For PS4 at least all single player and p2p multiplayer/co-ops will work even if sony didn't exists. Server based multiplayer is obviously suspect of not working "forevever"

 

[dragonelite]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dfc-the-entire-future-of-the-xbox-business-is-in-question/0117250
At some point, some investors said Microsoft should sell off the xbox division. Microsoft said they'll exit the gaming business before selling it. What happens when they exit the gaming business? Exactly the same thing as when they exited the music DRM business. They'll shutdown the servers.

They say that asking for BC is backwards, who wants to play old games anyway? That's a scary perspective about how long they'll keep the servers up.

In an interview, Major Nelson was asked about servers being eventually shutdown just like they shutdown the original xbox servers. His answer was something like "hey we're just launching this thing and you want to talk about when we'll shut down the servers? Come on!". Didn't answer the question.

OTOH, Sony doesn't need trust. They designed the system to be untethered, therefore I don't need to trust them, I don't even need them to exist.

He also said their system was flexible like a hundred times.
X1 will not perform like the wii u does in sales right now at least i hope, hype and marketing alone will sell them a couple of millions. Then their line up is in my opinion better then ps4 but then again im a halo and forza 5 so im biased.


And there hasn't been a console that wasn't cracked or didn't had emulated projects going 10~20 years after release. x86 they are what 70% there already
Question is do you think having bought a license or physical disk it allows you to pirate a copy. If im not mistaken here in the Netherlands im allowed by law to have home back ups. Given how you can connect external hdd home backups are easy to make.

 

[dobwal]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dfc-the-entire-future-of-the-xbox-business-is-in-question/0117250
At some point, some investors said Microsoft should sell off the xbox division. Microsoft said they'll exit the gaming business before selling it. What happens when they exit the gaming business? Exactly the same thing as when they exited the music DRM business. They'll shutdown the servers.

They say that asking for BC is backwards, who wants to play old games anyway? That's a scary perspective about how long they'll keep the servers up.

In an interview, Major Nelson was asked about servers being eventually shutdown just like they shutdown the original xbox servers. His answer was something like "hey we're just launching this thing and you want to talk about when we'll shut down the servers? Come on!". Didn't answer the question.

OTOH, Sony doesn't need trust. They designed the system to be untethered, therefore I don't need to trust them, I don't even need them to exist.

Yeah, they shut down the servers after allowing users to download and copy their music to discs to provide a DRM free library. Yeah, MS is freaking horrible for stepping on its users.

They did what basically should be done anytime a company wants to shut down a service where they are managing content for the user. They gave the user the responsibility to manage their own content.

 

[Kaotik]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/dfc-the-entire-future-of-the-xbox-business-is-in-question/0117250
At some point, some investors said Microsoft should sell off the xbox division. Microsoft said they'll exit the gaming business before selling it. What happens when they exit the gaming business? Exactly the same thing as when they exited the music DRM business. They'll shutdown the servers.

They say that asking for BC is backwards, who wants to play old games anyway? That's a scary perspective about how long they'll keep the servers up.

In an interview, Major Nelson was asked about servers being eventually shutdown just like they shutdown the original xbox servers. His answer was something like "hey we're just launching this thing and you want to talk about when we'll shut down the servers? Come on!". Didn't answer the question.

OTOH, Sony doesn't need trust. They designed the system to be untethered, therefore I don't need to trust them, I don't even need them to exist.

Didn't DFC say pretty much the same about Sony around PS3 launch?

 

[dagamer]

Did people watch the same E3 I did? It won't matter if Microsoft shuts down the servers for DRM checks or not because 1/2 the games announced had some fully integrated online component anyway! For people wanting to "preserve the experience of the game" they'd need to have the server-side component as well. And that's not just a Microsoft problem, but an EA, Activision, Blizzard, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, Sega, etc... problem as well. Publishers should be getting equal flak.

Regardless, we KNOW the future is online. Period. Anyone disagreeing with that can go play with their Atari 2600 and no one will disturb you. But that's where companies are investing their time and energy because its what people are demanding: "we want next-gen, not just some prettier graphics".

 

[Sigfried1977]

Look going digital is future ......if your not ready for a digital future just yet OK by a wii u or a PS 4 ......if you are ready to jump in then buy a Xbox one .

Everyone keeps harping on about the digital future, yet here I am still buying CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays or even Vinyls. There are a lot of people who like to own shit, and that's not gonna change. That is even despite the fact that music is generally far cheaper to download, way faster and easier to obtain thanks to comparably tiny file sizes (the recent trends around here actually point towards data plans with way stingier volume limits than they used to be. Not away from them. And I'm not living in some backwater dump like - according to MS at least - Poland.) and are essentially yours to do whatever the fuck you want with. Why can't there be an alternative? And if there can't be one, why is it okay that the sole option is one that has no benefits whatsoever and treats you like a criminal? There are healthy alternatives to Steam on the PC as well after all.

 

[function]

Did people watch the same E3 I did? It won't matter if Microsoft shuts down the servers for DRM checks or not because 1/2 the games announced had some fully integrated online component anyway!

So you can still play 1/2 the games. How is that not better than being able to play no games?

Also, having an integrated online component does not meant the game can't run offline unless it is specifically engineered to not run offline. You won't lose your connection and have the game or platform crash. These are design choices to cover predictable cases.

I still can't understand why such a clearly beneficial situation for consumers (the capacity to guarantee a degree of functionality indefinitely) is being spun against so hard.

 

[dagamer]

So you can still play 1/2 the games. How is that not better than being able to play no games?

Also, having an integrated online component does not meant the game can't run offline unless it is specifically engineered to not run offline. You won't lose your connection and have the game or platform crash. These are design choices to cover predictable cases.

I still can't understand why such a clearly beneficial situation for consumers (the capacity to guarantee a degree of functionality indefinitely) is being spun against so hard.

You want a guarantee that lasts until infinity. Now why would any company want to commit to that?

 

[friendo]

This is exactly why i avoid buying Digital downloads for AAA titles like "the last of us" to make sure i have a physcial copy that wont be limited by server requirements or hardware failures. I have a choice right now to go DD or not to go DD. MS on the other hand is trying to take away that choice forcing every purchase to be essentially DD

People are worried about silly things.


Look its quite simple. Lets say MS sells 100m xbox one's in the next 8 years. About 20 million more than xbox 360s in the same time frame.

Well that's peak xbox one . After that usage will only go down due to a new system correct ? So in 8 years you will need the most servers your ever going to need for xbox one duties. But we are also 8 years in the future and the servers then will be many more times powerful than they are now.

Mean while each year after peak xbox one the servers become more powerful and so your going to need less and less of them for both reasons.

so how long do you need the games to last ? 8 years? 16 ? 30 ? Each year costs for ms will go down so it will of course depend on demand if no one is playing anymore in year 12 ms may just cut the server.

Then there is forward compatibility to think about. As discussed here vms should allow them better forwards compatibility . So ms can continue running these games on the xbox two and thus extend the life cycle even longer.


On the flip side while ms closed xbox servers a few years ago , sony has no backwards compatibility for ps3 titles on the ps4. How long will sony keep that content up ? How about xbox live arcade stuff ? That is more worrisome cause the dead line is much sooner for it. But of course we don't say negative sony stuff anymore , the focus is only on negative xbox stuff. Look at patsu's hand waving of sony no having a way to convert your psp games to ps go games for north America one of the biggest gaming markets out there. Then sony wants to charge you using gakki for playing games you already own on disc. But its okay , lets talk about something negative about ms that could be 10 years or 20 years or 50 years in the future instead of what happening now.

 

[MrFox]

Did people watch the same E3 I did?

Yep, I heard the biggest cheer ever in my many years of watching E3 conferences. It was when they announced they preserved disc ownership, and that single player games don't have online-based DRM, and will work forever.

Regardless, we KNOW the future is online. Period. Anyone disagreeing with that can go play with their Atari 2600 and no one will disturb you. But that's where companies are investing their time and energy because its what people are demanding: "we want next-gen, not just some prettier graphics".

I finished The Last of Us yesterday. Third act is the best gaming experience of my life, I'll want to revisit it 10 years from now, I'll want to share it with anyone who haven't heard of it in the course of the next 20 years.
Can't wait for Beyond Two Souls. I expect great things.

Trying to ridicule our position with this crap about the 2600 is an act of desperation.

 

[3dilettante]

I'm interested in finding out if Microsoft has walled off the authentication function from its other initiatives. It was stated in that interview that MP bans won't shut off single player, but I'm curious where Microsoft would draw the line.

The ability to brick a console for a non-technology reason--refusal by the authenticating party for reasons not yet stated--is something new to this market. Ambitious anti-hacking measures or billing disputes can get pulled in, with all the controversy that the extra power and false positives can bring.

 

[brasnial]

DVD ....blue ray .....my god I collect old game so I've spent a lot of time at car boots ...free markets ......and you know what DVD ....blue ray there going to end up like video tapes in the skip in 10 years time
Its called change it happens things come and go that's just the way it is .......the next generation of gamers those being born now will look at a game disk and go how quaint did you use them grandad .

 

[Sigfried1977]

But why would people trust sony ? It really makes no sense they are both companies that will do whats best for their bottom line

Because despite what people say, it's absolutely possible to make healthy profits with the consumer's interests in mind. Apple didn't try to change the market in order to force the Iphone down people's throats either.