XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Pugger]

yep he's right what they wanted to do is important and could get game prices down and strengthen the industry but since they never told the story ...they pissed off a lot of people


they better figure out a way to tell it soon

I think they tried to tell the story but they were caught in a tidal wave of noise and what ever they siad fell on deaf ears. The game sharing was up online well before E3, but saying that there's no doubts MS marketing ploys and PR have been completely disjointed and it's no one wonder the story has failed to be delivered.

 

[wco81]

I think the used games transfers affect more people than game sharing.

Gamestop and other used-games purveyors move a lot of money through the system by buying and selling used games. And a lot of the money and credits they give out is used to buy more games.

PR can't spin that if Xbone games can't be freely traded -- bought and sold used at any venue, not just approved ones -- as PS3 and 360 games are now.

 

[Pugger]

MS needs to spin the positives of their console. Game lending is one them.

 

[wco81]

It's funny in the UK where most technology arrives late we pretty good and competitive Broadband network full of suppliers falling over themselves for our custom. You can get unlimted bandwidth at 30Mb for around £20 or less a month, I think Xbox one could work as a digital only machine in the UK.

Not sure why you would say that.

With all the money in London, it's a magnet for all kinds of electronics toys. London got one of the first Apple stores, for instance.

As far as telecom infrastructure, most countries outside the US have better policies, where they foster competition, which results in better services at lower costs.

In the US, there are entrenched monopolies, which just lobby govt (i.e. bribe politicians) to protect their interests.

That is why the US fare poorly in OECD ratings for broadband infrastructure. And we pay through the nose for TV programming and DVRs and such. Also the same story with mobile networks and pricing. And health care, and ... etc.

 

[wco81]

MS needs to spin the positives of their console. Game lending is one them.

Maybe, but game sharing is more than offset by the potential negative of not being able to re-sell games, abrogating the first sale doctrine.

 

[Pugger]

Not sure why you would say that.

With all the money in London, it's a magnet for all kinds of electronics toys. London got one of the first Apple stores, for instance.

As far as telecom infrastructure, most countries outside the US have better policies, where they foster competition, which results in better services at lower costs.

In the US, there are entrenched monopolies, which just lobby govt (i.e. bribe politicians) to protect their interests.

That is why the US fare poorly in OECD ratings for broadband infrastructure. And we pay through the nose for TV programming and DVRs and such. Also the same story with mobile networks and pricing. And health care, and ... etc.

I posted this in the wrong thread, thats what you get for typing two messages at once, it's over in the "why does the One have BR player.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If you examine their policies, including how to sell digital copies, how to gift digital copies, how to share digital copies with multiple "family" members, etc.. everything is based upon actually expanding consumers' rights regarding digital property.

Isolating their policies to digital purchases, I wouldn't have a problem with any of it.

The only problems arise when dealing with physical media. And, in order for the One to work as intended, all physical media must be treated as digital media. Therefore, what is actually additional freedom being given to digital media becomes additional restrictions on physical media.

This is bogus. The obvious thing to do here is have physical discs work exactly like that do now in the Xbox 360. You install the game but need the disc in the drive for ownership authentication. If this means excluding the game from wider sharing policies, unless the disc is in the drive, so be it.

It'll be the consumer's choice and the advantages/disadvantages are clear.

 

[oramay]

There is no good place to ask this, but anyway, does anyone know if there are some funny gifs made for the recent announcements? Hopefully epic stuff made by people like Sunhilegend and Demonite on neogaf, possibly including choice quotes like

I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points.

I don't want to sound like a junkie looking for drugs, but I do want my fix.

 

[dagamer]

We don't know what the RAM reservation is for PS4 but the fact that their OS is based off BSD suggest a very efficient offering. XB1 RAM reservation has as much to do with the fact that they want it to be able leverage apps developed for the rest of their ecosystem.

I see no reason why PS4 couldn't offer virtually all the same software features in a smaller footprint than what MS is doing now. The only thing categorically Sony can not do is overlay their UI on top of your TV channel because they don't have HDMI input on the device. However assuming someone has Eyetoy they can use motion controls to navigate the UI as well as voice commands as well.

I'm curious how you are concluding that all this can't be done on PS4. I would expect that the features at launch will only be expanded upon over time just as we saw with both the 360 and PS3. It simply comes down to Sony reserving enough space for potential future firmware updates. The services I will get on both devices will improve. And again the footprint on XB1 has as much to do with the framework they are tied to as anything else.

The PS4 will not be able let you play a single player game while in the lobby of a multiplayer game and switch between the two instantly because physical copies if games still require the disc in the system.

 

[Nesh]

I see no reason why PS4 couldn't offer virtually all the same software features in a smaller footprint than what MS is doing now. The only thing categorically Sony can not do is overlay their UI on top of your TV channel because they don't have HDMI input on the device. However assuming someone has Eyetoy they can use motion controls to navigate the UI as well as voice commands as well.

They can mimic that though by providing streaming TV, if they ever consider to be competitive in that respect

 

[expletive]

WHAT? No it isn't.

You can't play the same game at the same time on the One. You only have ONE COPY of the game.

How friggin difficult is this for you people to understand? Sure, I understand there's a little bit of confusion as to whether or not the person is actually PHYSICALLY at your house and playing on YOUR console or not, but really.

My understanding is that the owner, and one person off their 10 family members list, can be playing any game in the shared library. This includes the same title at the same time, but it can only be the owner and one other person. I've seen this explained this way in a number of places, where have you heard differently?

 

[Xalion]

The PS4 will not be able let you play a single player game while in the lobby of a multiplayer game and switch between the two instantly because physical copies if games still require the disc in the system.

There is absolutely no requirement that all games on the PS4 be purchased using physical media. Which means the PS4 can still allow switching between two games in the lobby as long as a game is purchased as DD.

The only "special" thing Microsoft did was force all games to be considered DD regardless of how you purchased them. In exchange for this benefit they added extra DRM. Sony on the other hand gives you two models of DRM - one that is very much like the XBox DRM for digital purchases (although you could argue it will be more restrictive because there are currently no "transfer" models announced for PS purchased DD). One that requires a physical disk. Some people like the choice, some people don't.

However technically speaking if you choose the DD DRM on both consoles, both consoles should be able to mimick any of the announced abilities of the other. Except as mentioned the overlay of television - because the PS4 does not physically have the port necessary to do it.

 

[Strange]

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/xbox-one-may-not-be-able-to-be-sold-used/

Next thing you know, controllers won't be able to be sold second hand because they recognize your fingerprints, and kinect 2 will do retina scans.

 

[MrFox]

Analysts are changing their estimates based on public reception of DRM policies, and Sony also raised it's sales forecast.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...39331615071540-lMyQjAxMTAzMDEwMTExNDEyWj.html

Lewis Ward, an analyst at IDC, noted that many companies have attempted a variety of restrictions in the past to try to minimize copying and other unauthorized distribution of software. Few of them have succeeded. "It hasn't eliminated piracy and it's alienated gamers," he said.

In this case, Microsoft's sales could suffer compared with Sony's, said Michael Olson, an analyst at Piper Jaffray. He had been estimating the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 would sell at about three-quarters the strength of their predecessors during their first two years on store shelves.

"Based on what we've seen now, the likelihood that Xbox One will be able to overachieve those estimates is low, and Sony's ability to overachieve that is higher," he said. "It's a big enough deal that it could impact adoption and will impact adoption."

 

[mrcorbo]

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/xbox-one-may-not-be-able-to-be-sold-used/

Next thing you know, controllers won't be able to be sold second hand because they recognize your fingerprints, and kinect 2 will do retina scans.

It's kinda sad that you are getting so much enjoyment out of trolling the XBOne. Posting a non-denial of baseless speculation as if it's a confirmation just so you can get in a dig? High-five bro! Sick burn!

 

[MrFox]

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/06/xbox-one-may-not-be-able-to-be-sold-used/

Next thing you know, controllers won't be able to be sold second hand because they recognize your fingerprints, and kinect 2 will do retina scans.

"We don't have any info" seems like a very honest answer. The games are not linked to the hardware, so there's zero incentive for MS to prevent the resale of the hardware, it's just a "client" to the online service.

 

[Pugger]

There is absolutely no requirement that all games on the PS4 be purchased using physical media. Which means the PS4 can still allow switching between two games in the lobby as long as a game is purchased as DD.

The only "special" thing Microsoft did was force all games to be considered DD regardless of how you purchased them. In exchange for this benefit they added extra DRM. Sony on the other hand gives you two models of DRM - one that is very much like the XBox DRM for digital purchases (although you could argue it will be more restrictive because there are currently no "transfer" models announced for PS purchased DD). One that requires a physical disk. Some people like the choice, some people don't.

However technically speaking if you choose the DD DRM on both consoles, both consoles should be able to mimick any of the announced abilities of the other. Except as mentioned the overlay of television - because the PS4 does not physically have the port necessary to do it.

But why after the massive outcry regarding DRM would anyone buy a game available on Disc through digital distribution on PS4?

 

[3dilettante]

But why after the massive outcry regarding DRM would anyone buy a game available on Disc through digital distribution on PS4?

This is asking why people amped up about losing choice would want to be able exercise their ability to choose.

That, and I've played enough Deus Ex to know how people tend to react to killswitches, as rare as the use of them may be.

 

[Xalion]

But why after the massive outcry regarding DRM would anyone buy a game available on Disc through digital distribution on PS4?

That is a different question. My post was addressing a fairly simple point - it is technically possible to do the same thing on the PS4 as it is on the XBox regarding playing a single player game and switching to a multi-player when your turn comes up. It may even already exist for DD games.

However I will say that giving the consumer a choice is not a bad thing in this case. In other words, what harm is there in having both DD with DRM and discs without DRM available?

I believe the premise of the original discussion was that most of the features on the XBox could be imitated on the PS4 if they turned out to be big selling points. I don't think it will be - but it is a bit disingenuous to say it couldn't be.

 

[MrFox]

But why after the massive outcry regarding DRM would anyone buy a game available on Disc through digital distribution on PS4?

Because the NoDRM campaign arguments were about the elimination of ownership and the danger of planned obsolescence. It was never to dictate to everybody that our preference is the only one that should exist. We argued that both choices should exist in parallel, just like it is right now with the PS3, and just like Music, Books and Films.

I bought a huge amount of low cost DD games, but my favorite AAA games are on disc. Hey, I also rent films, and I'm addicted to netflix. But my favorite films are purchased in bluray.