XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Cyan]

LOL this has NOTHING to do with hacking or piracy.... wow

If anything this will encourage hacking even more.

Yup, hackers are going to love the Xbox One. Every hacker's dream is there.

Microsoft's DRM policies, 3 operating systems and VMs, the challenge, capable hardware... That's the perfect breeding ground for people who are passionate about pirating hardware.

 

[MrFloopy]

Just catching up with todays clarifications and going back to MS original release about used games etc. So is it accurate to say that this is the situation:

MS:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
MS as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

Sony:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
Sony as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Just catching up with todays clarifications and going back to MS original release about used games etc. So is it accurate to say that this is the situation:

MS:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
MS as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

Sony:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
Sony as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

nope.

Any game that is made for PS4 that is physical goods, whether first-party or third-party, can go into a PS4 and play regardless of where it came from. The first player will play it, no problem, the second player will play it, no problem. What I was referring to was the online proposition. [The example was later given to me: If you buy a used disc from GameStop, you’ll have no problem popping that disc in and playing it from your PlayStation 4. The issue may arise when you try to jump online and play with other players. At that point, athird-party publisher may impose afee or not allow that.]

The easiest way to explain it is — if you understand how it works on PlayStation 3, then that’s the same way it will work on PlayStation 4. No changes there. We’ve been out for six and a half years. It’s the same experience.

http://allthingsd.com/20130611/five...estions-about-the-ps4-for-sonys-jack-tretton/

 

[Strange]

Just catching up with todays clarifications and going back to MS original release about used games etc. So is it accurate to say that this is the situation:

MS:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
MS as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

Sony:

Third party publishers may or may not chose to allow game resale and gifting to friends
Third party publishers may or may not chose to impose a fee on game resale
Sony as a publisher will allow resale, gifting and not impose a fee on such.

I believe it's inaccurate. Third party publishers "cannot" prevent game resales for PS4. If you have the game disk you can resale or gift it to friends as you like and there's nothing third party developers can do about the offline part.

Third party publishers may choose to impose a fee on game resale but it is only for online portions only. There's nothing third party publishers can do about the offline portion.

 

[MrFloopy]

I believe it's inaccurate. Third party publishers "cannot" prevent game resales for PS4. If you have the game disk you can resale or gift it to friends as you like and there's nothing third party developers can do about the offline part.

Third party publishers may choose to impose a fee on game resale but it is only for online portions only. There's nothing third party publishers can do about the offline portion.

nope.

Did they not say they wouldn't allow publishers to charge for multiplayer?
So can third party publishers charge / restrict multiplayer or not.

If they are not allowed to, as has been stated clearly elsewhere with reasons given for that decision, then what exactly can publishers charge for and implement their own DRM?

Does KB-Smoker's quote indicate simply that putting the disc in the player will work, but once in there you may be hit by any DRM the publisher chooses to include?

 

[expletive]

I believe it's inaccurate. Third party publishers "cannot" prevent game resales for PS4. If you have the game disk you can resale or gift it to friends as you like and there's nothing third party developers can do about the offline part.

Third party publishers may choose to impose a fee on game resale but it is only for online portions only. There's nothing third party publishers can do about the offline portion.

If there is an offline portion. For example, "the crew" is always online, and many are wondering why it needs to be. Publishers can make any game online only if they choose.

 

[bkilian]

I believe it's inaccurate. Third party publishers "cannot" prevent game resales for PS4. If you have the game disk you can resale or gift it to friends as you like and there's nothing third party developers can do about the offline part.

Third party publishers may choose to impose a fee on game resale but it is only for online portions only. There's nothing third party publishers can do about the offline portion.

Simple solution: All games are online only.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Did they not say they wouldn't allow publishers to charge for multiplayer?
So can third party publishers charge / restrict multiplayer or not.

If they are not allowed to, as has been stated clearly elsewhere with reasons given for that decision, then what exactly can publishers charge for and implement their own DRM?

Does KB-Smoker's quote indicate simply that putting the disc in the player will work, but once in there you may be hit by any DRM the publisher chooses to include?

It just comes down to Sony can't force them to do that.

We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.]

In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?
His words imply the balancing act that the platform-holder is trying to maintain between its three core constituencies of retail, publisher, and consumer.

The PR person staffing the meeting went as far as to say "it's just like PS3."

"That's the easiest way to say it -- it's the same," replied Rohde. "It's just like it's always was, is the easiest way to say it. Better, in fact, because online pass, in the future we're going away from that." EA had already abandoned online passes, but Sony has continued to use them in 2013 titles for its existing platforms.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...on_Sonys_DRM_policies_No_more_online_pass.php

 

[MrFloopy]

It just comes down to Sony can't force them to do that.

Ah, I see, so they've said that they won't allow 3rd party publishers to implement DRM on used game sales unless it's online, in which case they've said they shouldn't do that because they have PSN+ to cover that but they can't stop them from doing it.

So again what's the difference with the MS policy?

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Ah, I see, so they've said that they won't allow 3rd party publishers to implement DRM on used game sales unless it's online, in which case they've said they shouldn't do that because they have PSN+ to cover that but they can't stop them from doing it.

So again what's the difference with the MS policy?

Everything...

 

[MrFloopy]

Everything...

lol, so by everything you mean nothing, gotcha

 

[Kb-Smoker]

lol, so by everything you mean nothing, gotcha

Guess I missed the built in drm system in the ps4.

Yeah it's exactly the same

 

[Squilliam]

Thanks for proving my point. ITS NOT LOGICAL!

The problem is that it is the direction the major content producers want to go. Unless something happens which breaks the back of the major content houses then they will try to make the market go towards the Xbox One model. It is all theory until the first multiplatform PS4 and Xbox One titles can be compared.

I think Microsoft clarified a lot of this here. On the giving games away it is very clear:



Notice they specify disc-based games rather than all games and levy two requirements - games can only be given away once and it is only to people who have been your "friend" for a while. Basically, this is to prevent private sales (i.e. you sell it to me and then "give" me your copy online).

Also, it is publisher dependant - although Microsoft specifies for games they publish:



So basically, a game may only be "given away" once, to a restricted number of people, and it must be approved by the publisher.

Sharing is where it gets more difficult. They state that anyone can play the game on your console. Pretty much the same as PS+ or XBox live digital games right now (e.g. my wife can play all of my digital games under her PS account as long as she is using my machine). Then they have their special "family access". We don't have details to that other than it will allow your entire family to have access to your library.

One advantage I guess is that your wife can play with an online shared account. It really is too bad you can't treat DD titles as if they are disc based because IMO that would make it the perfect digital platform out there. Still however I guess sharing is a step in the right direction compared to Steam's one account one player system.

 

[MrFloopy]

Guess I missed the built in drm system in the ps4.

Yeah it's exactly the same

If it is as they say, the same as the PS3, then it does indeed have built in DRM, as did PS2, as did PS1, and I know you know that.

Unfortunately, as expected the argument shifts to implementation rather than policy, which was not the discussion I was trying to have.

The policy of both MS and Sony is that the publishers will decide whether to use DRM on used games. MS have chosen to provide a framework for that choice, Sony have chosen not to.

My point above was simply to point out the similarities between the two policies.

 

[-tkf-]

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. We just got rid of every DVD, HDDVD, and blu-ray that is not a movie we want to watch multiple times. Some years ago, we sold all our paper based books, except for a few that I could not get digitally. What's the point of having things in your house that are just going to collect dust?

You do understand the irony of this post?

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Ex-xbox guy Peter Moore just threw ms under the bus!

Polygon: The narrative I've heard is that EA lobbied hard to have the hardware companies come up with a solution so you guys are not faffingaround with online passes and you're not losing potential used game profits toretailers.

Moore: "Absolutely incorrect. As the guy who is the chief operating officer of Electronic Arts I can tell you that EA did not aggressively lobby for the platform holders to put some gating function in there to allow or disallow used games. I am on record as being aproponent of used games. I like the ecosystem. I like the fact that it's kept pricing at a good level for eight years. I like the fact that someone can buy a physical game and see some equity in that game. That keeps GameStop vibrant and they are agreat launch and marketing partner for us.

"EA has never had a conversation, and I have been present at all of them, with all of the manufacturers, saying you must put a system in place that allows us to take a piece of the action or even stop it. Absolutely incorrect."

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/11/4421314/electronic-arts-talks-drm-and-used-games

 

[-tkf-]

People had a full night to throw their hats in the air and embrace the game-trading game-renting game-selling free-for-all, but now there's a big asterix that says, "Sony published titles only." The war is won. .

So just wanted to point out that I threw the hat back into the air, the war may still rage but the gamers freedom fighters are winning

 

[-tkf-]

Ex-xbox guy Peter Moore just threw ms under the bus!



http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/11/4421314/electronic-arts-talks-drm-and-used-games

Incredible:

You had the Online Pass and now it's gone. The view is that you made that call because either the Online Pass was commercially marginal or you have got something else waiting to take its place.

Moore: "We cancelled Online Pass. I was at the meeting. It just wasn't resonating with the consumer. It just wasn't consumer friendly. It was hard work and it was as much work for the guy who would never trade his game in, even though we gave him some digital content, because you're punching numbers in. We just made a decision. I was the chair at the meeting. We said enough of Online Pass. Not saying, you know, it was Austin Powers type meeting of Doctor Evils saying [places pinkie finger on eyetooth, Dr. Evil-style] 'we know we can get it back down the road'. No. That was not the meeting I was in. Online Pass was more trouble to the consumer than it was worth. It was a mistake. The consumer's feedback was that this thing gets in the way of a good experience so let's get rid of it."

So unless he is straight up lying they didn't drop Online Pass because they knew a new DRM system was around the corner..

 

[MrFox]

but.. but... but... aggressive online DRM is supposed to save the industry against the tyranny of used games and those wretched entitled gamers! I don't even know what is double plus good anymore.

 

[eastmen]

but.. but... but... aggressive online DRM is supposed to save the industry against the tyranny of used games and those wretched entitled gamers! I don't even know what is double plus good anymore.

How many EA exclusive ps4 games are there ? How much exclusive dlc is Battlefield ps4 verison getting ?

You'd be crazy to think EA doesn't want drm