XBox One, PS4, DRM, and You

[Tap In]

That clearly isn't what they do it.
They need a mechanism to revoke a license if you sell the disk. The only other ways to do it is to require the disk in the drive to play the game or have some mechanism where the user is expected to revoke their own license before selling the disk.
MS clearly doesn't want to require the disk.
The latter has a number of loop holes that leave purchasers with unusable disks.
They could I guess checkin when ever you start the game, but checking in at some reasonable interval seems less objectionable to me.

yes this is the logical thanks for boiling it down


people want to make this about being evil and anti-consumer but it is mostly the logistics of still having to deal with a damned dirty disc, and logic of digital rights management.

they need to disallow it from being played off your HDD if you sell the disc. they need to be sure someone else isn't playing it same time as you (2 for 1)

 

[Dregun]

Comparing MS's DRM to Netflix and Gaikai is laughable. Netflix and Gaikai are optional streaming services that allow you to pay a fee to stream all the content they have if you choose. MS's DRM is not like that at all, you pay for a game and you MUST be connected at all times to play it even though it is not an online game.

Furthermore so many comments are being said about "what if sales are better on DRM restricted Xbox, are developers going to delay releases..etc etc?" Good point, but what if they sell better on a non DRM machine; what then?

What happens to the "we lose money on used games" when it is proven that a system that allows used games makes them more profit?!? This is a very strong possibility, stronger than the "timed releases because of no DRM". As delaying a release on a competitors console does not guarantee that said console owner is going to buy it when it becomes available. Nor does it present the right form of PR to the customer base, it will in fact make for a hostile relationship between publishers and consumers.

No amount of spin is going to convince any rational person that limiting the free use of their purchases is a good thing, no matter how big of a fanboy they are. Ever think the reason console gaming is so much bigger compared to PC gaming might have something to do with DRM? Ever think the backlash MS has received so far might be based just as much on principle as it is on the people it will actually affect?

We have examples of DRM policies creating angry customers....Sim City. NO matter how much some of you want to be blind to it the fact is MS's DRM policies are a big issue for many people. When Mom and Dad find out Timmy''s christmas wish is for a console that won't allow him to share games and REQUIRE an internet connection they will think heavily about it.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

One thing about drm.... you are going to have every hacker out against this system.I saw anonymous already put stuff against xbone drm.

 

[MrFloopy]

http://kotaku.com/ubisofts-next-gen-racing-game-is-always-online-they-e-512250025

I suspect we are going to see a lot more of this.

 

[-tkf-]

http://kotaku.com/ubisofts-next-gen-racing-game-is-always-online-they-e-512250025

I suspect we are going to see a lot more of this.

Look another game i wont buy!

Ubisoft's just-announced The Crew is an ambitious, impressive-looking game. A Need for Speed-like street racing game with a ton of singleplayer and multiplayer options, set on a ridiculously massive map that spans from Los Angeles to New York City. But if you want to play it, you're going to need an internet connection.

He emphasized that the single-player story can be played all by yourself… as long as you have an internet connection.

So essentially a Online DRM check, i hope they have a strong policy on the markings on these games.

"Will not run without a online subscription fee, and will die when we switch off our servers, all your money are belong to us"

 

[Shifty Geezer]

http://kotaku.com/ubisofts-next-gen-racing-game-is-always-online-they-e-512250025

I suspect we are going to see a lot more of this.

That's why I think Sony haven't gone with a system-level DRM. Devs and publishers can always go that route themselves if they choose, as Sony's platform is open and less regulated. So Sony can shift the blame to the publishers but still support their business decisions.

 

[Pugger]

No I don't think they will, as I say I actually am not even convinced it will be common on X1.
Publishers like the idea, but I'm not sure the majority of them want to live with the backlash without some evidence it actually increases sales.

And this is what makes MS policy completely nuts. I reckon halfway through the next generation most games will be digital anyway and as you said, DRM becomes a non issue.

 

[Mianca]

In practice, both Xbox One and PS4 will actually need to be connected to the internet to enjoy most games - as there's hardly any game that's solely based on offline play these days.

But there's a difference in spirit and focus.

I actually think that the uncompromising way in which Microsoft decided to handle required internet connectivity, cloud gaming, and DRM is way more forward-thinking than SONY's (kind of lukewarm) approach. That being said, people just don't like other people (let alone companies) doing the thinking for them. So Microsoft's boldness might pay off in the long run - but SONY certainly struck a better balance between dependability of next-gen features and acceptability of their (transitional) integration.

 

[MfA]

yes but once the serial number is used by a person converting it to digital DL, there is still nothing to stop a disc holder installing it on another machine. Even if they have a check when online the user could just play off line

You don't need to use a RFID, you can use a secure microcontroller with NFC. So during the install the microcontroller stores that fact ... after that it becomes useless (or it could be used to make installs which could only be played when all devices on which the game is installed are online ala microsoft).

 

[DJ12]

And this is what makes MS policy completely nuts. I reckon halfway through the next generation most games will be digital anyway and as you said, DRM becomes a non issue.

It becomes an issue when the system gets hacked and are we sure with all windows vulnerability added to the box and every hacker worth his salt targetting the big evil corporation?

I give it a year.

 

[Nesh]

It becomes an issue when the system gets hacked and are we sure with all windows vulnerability added to the box and every hacker worth his salt targetting the big evil corporation?

I give it a year.

You know what? I wish it happens. And I wish it happens so much that it will have an impact. And I wish gamers in retaliation dont buy games that require always online

 

[MfA]

The latter has a number of loop holes that leave purchasers with unusable disks.

Isn't the news as of now that you would need to sell it to retailers? A retailer has the disk in hand, he can check the activation status and there is no way it can.change after he buys it.

 

[MrFloopy]

That's why I think Sony haven't gone with a system-level DRM. Devs and publishers can always go that route themselves if they choose, as Sony's platform is open and less regulated. So Sony can shift the blame to the publishers but still support their business decisions.

Which makes me wonder why MS chose to take any potential heat on it. Personally, I think this will blow over. More and more of our content is going to move in this direction and they must have data that suggests it's not a big issue for the overwhelming majority of consumers.

A look through major world newspapers and all my national ones suggest they may be right. What articles there are, certainly aren't getting much prominence, and the general discussion, like most issues, is presented as a he said/she said argument, mostly driven with the story that new consoles are being presented, not the issues driving conversation here.

In fact, the latest iOS update has swamped pretty much the entire tech news cycle.

 

[Jwm]

I hope we see more details from Sony today, right now I fell like there will be plenty of fine print. Get the burn during the conference and the press awards, then start rolling out the finer details. Hope I am wrong, just too many things unknown.

 

[DJ12]

No drm not a clear enough message for you?

 

[KongRudi]

As far as I understand it, used games dosn't work for Xbox One.
A publisher can 'opt in' to the system MS has in place for used games.

Only if the publisher 'opt in' the users can either give away their copy of that game once, or resell their games at the price Microsoft have put in place at the system for used games.

I've seen some stores are claiming that MS has a minimum price for games, while other stores claim that MS and publishers get's a high percentage of the total amount of the used sale.
And some stores said they had to sell at 10% lower than digital price, and had to give alot of the money to the publishers.

Clearly this will lead to slower price-drops of games, and games will stay longer at full price less trade-in for less profit opportunity compared to the system on PS4.
And alot of games can't even be traded probably.

The big games will make it on all systems, but without a trade-in enviroment, or some competition to drive price down, I think the medium quality games will struggle, since often people trade in 2 games to get a more reasonable price, compared to the triple A title, you're willing to pay more for.

You can't really compare it to Steam, because Valve allways have to think price-competitive since they do not have a monopoly-situation on the platform.
And most importantly - you don't connect to internet on Steam, it starts up in Offline mode, it dosn't stop you from playing if ISP/Router trouble/Service-provider prevents authentication.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How do publishers feel about Sony's position? If MS is giving them a cut from 2nd hand market and Sony's doesn't, XB1 may be the more profitable machine. I wonder how Sony is dealing with publisher discussions about the business models.

 

[BeyondTed]

And this is what makes MS policy completely nuts. I reckon halfway through the next generation most games will be digital anyway and as you said, DRM becomes a non issue.

Yes, it would have been much better not to go the route of forcing it on people. When I buy a digital download I am quite happy doing that as most people are, but obviously I can not resell or lend it.

But when a corporation twists your arm and forces it upon the customers along with a hassle and bad publicity it ends up in a different league.

They should have just let digital downloads naturally grow instead of making a big DRM stink.

Sony certainly saw the DRM stink as an opportunity for getting a few digs in (their PS4 sharing instructional video).

 

[KongRudi]

I wonder how Sony is dealing with publisher discussions about the business models.

Sony's probably saying;
- We didn't buy the game, consumers did, ask them if you can get a cut, it's their game afterall.
If you want, you can sell it to us on PS+ for half a million dollar' tough.
Then you'll also gain a big userbase-boost if the game is good, and probably be able to sell more DLC.

 

[eastmen]

Sony's probably saying;
- We didn't buy the game, consumers did, ask them if you can get a cut, it's their game afterall.
If you want, you can sell it to us on PS+ for half a million dollar' tough.
Then you'll also gain a big userbase-boost if the game is good, and probably be able to sell more DLC.

Publishers are most likely saying . MS is going to get exclusive content unless you let us put some type of check in place. Sony is say sure and we can laugh at all the fools who believe we have their best interest in heart.

Like I said , I will laugh when ps4 fans have to deal with ps4 drm games be it online checks or some type of nfc system