I have Dishworld which I believe is thru Dish and it allows me to access content thru IP streaming that is archived by Dishworld although I'm not sure how far back or long its stored for. I pay ~10.00/month and it's a far better deal since the only thing I used to watch on TV was La Liga, Serei A and Champions League. We have Netflix so my kid loves everything she can access on from the Playstation, which my wife also loves but we still have a really basic satellite package so she can see live news. When the news channels come to IP (in some ways they already are) we'll be a satellite/cable free household. We were paying >120/month for 2 DVRs (one of which I own) and now we pay less than 40/m total for all 3 services and have access to much more content and with the ability to stream to smart phones and tablets much of what we want can be accessed remotely....
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
I have Dishworld which I believe is thru Dish and it allows me to access content thru IP streaming that is archived by Dishworld although I'm not sure how far back or long its stored for. I pay ~10.00/month and it's a far better deal since the only thing I used to watch on TV was La Liga, Serei A and Champions League. We have Netflix so my kid loves everything she can access on from the Playstation, which my wife also loves but we still have a really basic satellite package so she can see live news. When the news channels come to IP (in some ways they already are) we'll be a satellite/cable free household. We were paying >120/month for 2 DVRs (one of which I own) and now we pay less than 40/m total for all 3 services and have access to much more content and with the ability to stream to smart phones and tablets much of what we want can be accessed remotely....
This is a really nice app. I learned about it from all the internet chatter, and indeed it works spectacularly.
Already have it on my roku I guess, but one less box to switch to I suppose if it's on X1 also.
My guess is because it is not an extender (the Win8 version) and you can't stream protected content to another media center unless it is an extender.
Ironically, Steam was letting me stream Media Center to my tablets. I wonder if the new group at MS will take notice of this, and realize there is still some market for Media Center.
Comcast is touting a cloud DVR but so far their X1 products are beset by bugs. Can't really trust them since they're not a software company.
My Tivo streams to my iPad, even when out of the home. But some things like HBO and Showtime can't be streamed. So I have a Vulkano, which is like a Slingbox but I just download and stream any shows from my DVR to my iPad and laptop.
So no, I'd rather have local storage and some control over the content that I pay a lot of money for. If they put it on the cloud, that gives them a chance to restrict when or where you can view the content, even though you're paying for it.
My Tivo streams to my iPad, even when out of the home. But some things like HBO and Showtime can't be streamed. So I have a Vulkano, which is like a Slingbox but I just download and stream any shows from my DVR to my iPad and laptop.
So no, I'd rather have local storage and some control over the content that I pay a lot of money for. If they put it on the cloud, that gives them a chance to restrict when or where you can view the content, even though you're paying for it.
Nadella was recently quoted as saying MS needs to build the next big thing.
Seems like X1 with K2 was what they hoped the next big thing would be, especially paired with Mehdi's quote about selling a billion units.
So despite the apparent white flag over the K2, they may again try to produce a design with some kind of a hook if they produce a next gen design.
Seems like X1 with K2 was what they hoped the next big thing would be, especially paired with Mehdi's quote about selling a billion units.
So despite the apparent white flag over the K2, they may again try to produce a design with some kind of a hook if they produce a next gen design.
Nvidia?
Only ones that would make any kind of sense to me are Samsung, Apple, Amazon, Google. The only reason to get into selling a console now is to be able to sell a variety of content and services (music, movies, games, skype etc) or data mine your customer and sell the data (Google ... Facebook?).
Still no reason to believe that the sale would actually happen. There are absolutely no signals that Microsoft is seriously considering the option.
MS got into the console biz to control the living room, but that moved to mobile. I'm not sure who'd really benefit from buying XB; no-one's got a strong content platform. Maybe Amazon to sell movies and music via their Kindle platform?
Conversely though, the lack of consoles value in the Big Picture, outside of a profitable business in its own right, is the argument for selling off XB. For those looking myopically at the Big Picture, XB isn't going to help sell mobiles and stuff. At least, some people think that. Integrating all their devices into an ecosystem is actually MS's best shot IMO, and leveraging XB and Live to shift mobiles has to be a good thing. That said, if every XB360 bought a Windows mobile phone, that's still a drop in the mobile ocean.
Conversely though, the lack of consoles value in the Big Picture, outside of a profitable business in its own right, is the argument for selling off XB. For those looking myopically at the Big Picture, XB isn't going to help sell mobiles and stuff. At least, some people think that. Integrating all their devices into an ecosystem is actually MS's best shot IMO, and leveraging XB and Live to shift mobiles has to be a good thing. That said, if every XB360 bought a Windows mobile phone, that's still a drop in the mobile ocean.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Exactly. What is hysterical in this conversation is the inherent belief that the console business is not profitable enough in its own right and is only beneficial as a trojan horse to leverage other profit streams.
The control of the living room is still in the hands of those who have been in control for decades, the cable and satellite operators.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/netflix-statistics/
Netflix is probably the largest streaming service globally and last year 50% of netflix US subscribers used consoles for live streaming. While the number of US subs who used service through cell phones was 6%. 42% used computer while only 14% hook their computers up to their TVs.
Mobile devices in the living room space is more about control versus delivery (outside its dominant use as a social media device). MS wants to be a content provider. And the Xbox allows it to be one of the biggest content providers in the living room given that console gaming content is a rather significant market.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ent...inment-gaming-hbo-go-comcast-xfinity-mlb.html
Back in 2012, the average 360 household used Xbox Live 84 hours a month with more than half those hours devoted to videos and music. The overall average household watches 150 hours of TV a month.
For a foundering multinational like Sony that is struggling not to go bankrupt, the console business on its own is profitable enough because it makes more than negative dollars.
For a profitable company like Microsoft that has some massive cash cows, the pressure from institutional investors shows that it isn't.
It's not enough to make money in the eyes of investors, it needs to make more money than if Microsoft chose to invest in other things. Xbox is not impressive relative to the big pillars of Microsoft's balance sheet, and it's had over a decade to show its expenditures couldn't have been used better somewhere else.
Linking the console to so many other initiatives was supposed to make the sort of returns that were to justify this long venture. Spending billions over a decade to sort of make some of it back is not what the stockholders want.
Every large company would have a portfolio of products. Some are dogs, some cash cows and some stars waiting to become cash cows. Investors know that not every product can be a cash cow and it's up to the business heads to choose which products to invest in according to what they believe will bring cash in the future (becoming cash cows).
If MS still believe the Xbox can be turned into a cash cow, let them be and see what happens. It will never, ever make as much money as the money printing machine that is Windows licensing, the investors know this, MS knows this, we all know this. And it doesn't need to. If MS or any successful business focused their energies exclusively on what makes them sure money then the world we live in would be a lot less interesting.
The short-sighted focus on quarterly numbers indicates investors don't always know this, or necessarily care if they do.
In the Xbox division's case, they've had over ten years to produce returns commensurate to the investment.
Some large investors seem to think Microsoft has had long enough to justify expending a massive amount of resources, and a decade is an embarassment of riches in terms of how quickly stockholders clamor of short-term windfalls.
In that case, maybe Microsoft should spin off the division and have some rich private ownership take it over, otherwise there are only uninteresting motivations to be expected.
As dobwal points out, it is a content delivery mechanism and a contributor to other parts of their business as such - for instance, it has ad revenue contribution that is separate from XBOX Live business reporting and contributes to the overall Bing business.
I don't think a pure gaming console is profitable in its own right anymore. The games aren't there to subsidize the other profit streams. The games are still the biggest part of the business. But alternate revenue streams are needed to really turn a profit. Sony no longer sells their hardware at a loss. This gen we did not get high-end hardware because selling at a loss is no longer viable. They had to find other ways to make money. PSN Plus is one way. And this gen they walled off multiplayer to try to increase subscription rates. Then you have movies and music to help keep the business afloat. Sony owns content, and they want to sell it to as many people as possible. This isn't just a Microsoft thing. Sony is doing the exact same thing. Are there advertisements in the PSN Store? That's revenue.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
If games consoles weren't a profitable business Sony would have dumped PlayStation by now. For anybody taking notice, they've been downsizing/refocusing the less profitable businesses (e.g. TVs, cameras), expanding their profitable businesses (semiconductors, particularly CCDs) and completely axing their unprofitable/too-low-margin-to-be-worth-it business without (Vaio).
Kaz Hirazi recently said "It is likely that PS4 will become the platform which exceeds the profits earned with PS2". The recent $78 loss for PlayStation was attributed to the PS4 launch and shutting down some old MMOs. Sony ought to be nailing it for content delivery; PlayStation in the home and on the move, TV, movie, game and music studios and a TV, music, game and movie distributor. If anybody is looking to synergise through vertical integration of content production, ownership, distribution rights and delivery platforms, it's Sony.
And that's been his plan since becoming CEO in April 2012. They've now cut most of the fat and are beginning to work together. Prior to PS4 launch you would never have got the head of Sony Movie Studios at a game console announcement. Crazy times.
This is why I, in another thread, pointed out the projections Microsoft did for console sales volumes this generation. In internal discussions as well as in negotiations with various content providers, sales volume, and thus size of revenue stream, has to have been the crucial unknown where they had to go on some sort of predictions. It seems their predictions were way off.
Reinforcing your point, not only has the Xbox project failed to produce a decent ROI even over long time, what may ultimately be more damning is that consoles may not be a growth segment. Investing heavily to gain marketshare in a shrinking market doesn't really make sense for Microsoft. It would be like throwing your corporate resources behind developing mp3 players in 2010.... In terms of focus, spinning off/shutting down the console business makes sense for the same reasons that shutting down the Zune project did.3dilettante said:
However, Microsoft top brass says "not yet", so we'll see. I don't know what they hope for, really, but it's clearly too early to call it quits just yet. Satya Nadellas “I have no intent to do anything different on Xbox than we are doing today,” doesn't really inspire confidence however.
Apple buying an expansive piece of hardware running on an OS they will have a hard time supporting, caring for services have way lesser penetration than their in house product, it makes no sense sorry.
It doesn't make sense for Amazon either, completely different ecosystem, too expensive, etc.
Xbox is relevant to MSFT, it is a MSFT product, bound to their environment, to their OS products, their programming languages, etc.
I think people are overvaluing the weight of the brand in the face of competitors releasing "real" home console that would come with such affixes: "galaxy", "Apple", "One (htc)", "nexus", etc.
Thing is for now the afforemention brands do not want to pay the "buy in" to enter the game, my opinion is that when the cheaper, commodity hardware will be good enough they will. For now the balance between investment and risk on one side and ROI on the other is not worthy.
