Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

It was that investment guy who followed the paper trails from MS earning statements and concluded that XB division was losing a large sum on money but that was offset on paper by the licensing fees earned from Android.

And it was complete bogus.

Hardware and Live subscriptions end up in D&C hardware. Live transactions and 1st party revenue ends up in D&C Other. Android fees end up in D&C licensing. Also, the $2 billion figure for Android licensing is highly dubious.

D&C hardware is also home to Surface. So XBOX, instead of being held buoyant by Android licensing fees, is actually weighed down by the Surface boat anchor.

Let's stress again: Sherlund is an idiot.

Cheers
 
Gubbi. Have you had any experience with the new SDK that the rebellion software guys were talking about? Whats your perception of its impact on XB capabilities?
 
Yeah, the problem is Xbox was literally conceived as a defensive move, part of an explicit strategy to combat Sony's dominance of the living room. But while they were at war in the console space they completely missed the revolution in mobile that would render the whole question moot. The living room belongs to Apple and Google and fighting over the TV just feels like a sideshow now. So, without the strategic aspect to competing in the console market, and with revenue that is dwarfed by Microsoft's "real" businesses, it's fair to question why they stay. Those questions will only become more persistent if PlayStation 4 jumps out to a large lead in the first year and the golden goose that are Gold membership fees begin to erode.

Looked at in a vacuum, XOne sales are double+ that of X360 so far (3.9 vs 1.5 first quarter), while doubtless being far more profitable ($500 and a mid-low PC GPU target will do that).

So from that perspective Microsoft would be farther from quitting.

I think it's a fairly long running narrative of wishful thinking really. Xbox seems pretty integral to MS. For example, "Xbox music" has nothing to do with video games but still bears Xbox branding, likely the only cool brand MS has. They also tied into Windows Phone as best they could with Xbox Live Apps a front and center selling point.

And what happened to all the people clamoring for Win 8 apps across all MS devices on Xbox? (there seemed to be a lot of that on this forum)? That would require even tighter integration and further remove any chance of scuttling.
 
Even tough you say looked at in a vacuum, I think its important to look at that point to.
I doubt neither Sony or MS made out their business plans for the new generation of consoles, by basing its success upon wether they had 1:1 or 2:1 or 5:1 marketshare advantage.

I mean Sony said they are selling better that expected, how about XB1 is it on pair with their plans? Or ahead or behind? You of course need to look at the the competitor to, but if you are completing all your goals and the competition just pushes more volume. Is it a disaster?
 
I think it's a fairly long running narrative of wishful thinking really. Xbox seems pretty integral to MS. For example, "Xbox music" has nothing to do with video games but still bears Xbox branding, likely the only cool brand MS has. They also tied into Windows Phone as best they could with Xbox Live Apps a front and center selling point.
Microsoft have branding issues in that that for many years they went though a period of branding everything as Windows or Live (or both) and other brands, Zune and Surface for example, gained little traction globally.

I think Microsoft are probably more married to Xbox as a positive brand than they are the platform itself. Xbox is synonymous now with entertainment and fun and that may be why they've used the Xbox brand to promote their music service.

It'll be interesting to see what Nadella changes at Microsoft; obviously if the Balmer strategy was working they wouldn't be in a position where a leadership change occurred. I don't think the Xbox platform is particularly in jeopardy but I don't believe it's so successful that it won't be affected somehow by whatever review Nadella undertakes.
 
Xbox makes profit, but compared to other divisions it's not so much. The main reasons for microsoft to keep Xbox is that it's their well known entertainment brand, it has face value for microsoft.

They have kinect and apple is going after kinect like experience. They have a windows entertainment console named Xbox One and Amazon is going after an android entertainment console and unlike amazon they have very good and strong IPs, studious (like T10, 343i, Lionhead, Rare, Black Tusk, other good 3rd Party partners) and Xbox Live.

Even if they want to sell xbox this is very bad time for doing it. Xbox One is just lunched 3 month ago and Xbox 360 still sells well (for an 8 years console).
 
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I all I ask of Nadella for now is to create a Xbox Surface dock, basically think Wii-U Pad, but for PC games with a Pro/2 in the center. It will also need a split keyboard below the thumbsticks, along with a few extra batteries to help bump that up as well.
 
Xbox makes profit, but compared to other divisions it's not so much.

This is the part that i wouldn't understand. With the sales, the live subscriptions, the gaming license and being able to not really reduce the price very much. I would expect the 360 to be a healthy product with good earnings. Even taking the RROD billion loss into account.

Considering the money they have spend on craptastic products it's a no brainer to keep the XBOX alive
 
Nintendo quarterly reports. They socked away a lot of cash during the GC era.

That dosent make any sense. You dont know how much they spent developing and advertising it and how much it took in. According to Iwata it wasnt worth to be in console business if Wii failed like Gamecube

Most of the money they made during those years came from GBA anyway
 
Xbox makes profit, but compared to other divisions it's not so much. The main reasons for microsoft to keep Xbox is that it's their well known entertainment brand, it has face value for microsoft.

They have kinect and apple is going after kinect like experience. They have a windows entertainment console named Xbox One and Amazon is going after an android entertainment console and unlike amazon they have very good and strong IPs, studious (like T10, 343i, Lionhead, Rare, Black Tusk, other good 3rd Party partners) and Xbox Live.

Even if they want to sell xbox this is very bad time for doing it. Xbox One is just lunched 3 month ago and Xbox 360 still sells well (for an 8 years console).

If they wanted to sell Xbox I have to wonder, who would even buy it?

Given all their studios seems like a lot to unload. It would have to be someone with an absolute butt-ton of money, limiting it to just a few corporations.

I guess the only real contender I could think of would be somebody looking to make a splash in gaming, with fairly deep pockets, like Amazon (most likely) or Google (doesn't seem to fit for many reasons). Samsung would be an obvious guess, but I really doubt they have any interest for the console gaming biz (it's not particularly profitable in the best of times, Sammy can sell smartphones and count money).

I dont even know if Amazon has those kind of pockets, they aren't intensely profitable like Microsoft, with tons of cash on hand. Also obviously there's the whole matter of them apparently doing their own console currently. Buying a small time outfit like Double Helix is a far cry from taking on Microsoft's raft of 1st party devs.

I imagine the opposing console fans who drive a lot of these rumors, dream scenario would be what? some non-threatening company like Panasonic (I dont know the first thing about them), acquiring the Xbox brand and fading it away quietly? Looking up Panny on Wiki, they certainly seem to have the size for it (330k employees). But I cant really think of a single CE product from them offhand. They seem to embody "massive faceless asian conglomerate". seem to be struggling with profitability currently as a lot of Japan companies as well. Toshiba might be in that non-threatening passive vein too, but they were in the past actually allied with Sony. Hard to imagine those companies being aggressive.

This is the part that i wouldn't understand. With the sales, the live subscriptions, the gaming license and being able to not really reduce the price very much. I would expect the 360 to be a healthy product with good earnings. Even taking the RROD billion loss into account.

I think this is a good analysis. Based on everything I know yes my guess was 360 as a whole was profitable. Probably socking away pretty decent profits the last 3-4 years.

Of course some would say it's all comparative. Even Apple cant compete with Microsoft's software margins.

I dont know that there's really a space for that anymore though, I cant think of a huge, rising, or highly profitable software company. Apple is really a hardware company. Google is a "web services" company based on search I'd say. I dont think software is really a viable path. the only reason MS does it is they are in the unique and un-reproducable position of having a legacy OS monopoly in the PC space.

In the end I do take some pleasure that hardware was >software in general. It always bugged me how many give short thrift to the import of hardware in any industry. I n the end, hardware is that thing you cant steal, unlike one's and zero's. You cant download your TV. I'd be wary of being in a business of something that can be easily stolen (software).

Considering the money they have spend on craptastic products it's a no brainer to keep the XBOX alive

Zune? What was it, Kin? Do I get a prize? :) Surface may be a possible debacle too, haven't kept up lately.
 
The best estimate I've seen regarding 8th gen was that X360 made about 4 billion and PS3 lost about 4 billion.

MS ate Sony's lunch last Gen. Why would they stop now?
 
Software is still king though rangers... He will eventually be commoditized. Samsung and Apple both know that the uniqueness of their hw designs and specs will be not only matched but surpassed within months ir maybe weeks of release.
 
If they wanted to sell Xbox I have to wonder, who would even buy it?
If Microsoft value and want to keep the Xbox brand, I don't see how they could sell it.

When Zune didn't work out as well as they hoped, they didn't sell it, just they shelved it and redeployed those people and resources.

When the iPod slowed changed from Apple's cash cow to an insignificant part of their business, Apple didn't sell or shut it down, they just slowly pulled resources from the hardware and software teams - keeping the product going, but developing it very little. Most of the work on Xbox One has been done now, hardware manafucaturing is outsourced, most games come from third parties. They could just scale back whatever development plans they had. It's out, it works, it has momentum.

If you reduce the resource dedicated to maintaining the product, your profit margin goes up. There are a lots of options to do things differently.
 
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If Microsoft value and want to keep the Xbox brand, I don't see how they could sell it.

When Zune didn't work out as well as they hoped, they didn't sell it, just they shelved it and redeployed those people and resources.

When the iPod slowed changed from Apple's cash cow to an insignificant part of their business, Apple didn't sell or shut it down, they just slowly pulled resources from the hardware and software teams - keeping the product going, but developing it very little. Most of the work on Xbox One has been done now, hardware manafucaturing is outsourced, most games come from third parties. They could just scale back whatever development plans they had. It's out, it works, it has momentum.

If you reduce the resource dedicated to maintaining the product, your profit margin goes up. There are a lots of options to do things differently.

What's the point of keeping Xbox brand alive (xbox music/video/reader ...) and killing xbox's hardware? 30k Nokia staff joining microsoft this year and by that point it's too late for them to change their mind about xbox. They will have 30K staff with specific skills in creating high quality hardwares and they already own good teams for windows and wp and Azure, ... and of course a high level entertainment team such as xbox.

I mean xbox is the most successful hardware/software/cloud/social combination that microsoft ever created and contains all of microsoft DNAs. Xbox One is a big step at ONE microsoft strategy.

If 3-4 years later they want to kill their HW division (elop effect?!) then it would be wisely to kill xbox, too. Since by that point we/they realized that there is no relation between microsoft and HWs. Now they want to be apple/google and if they fail to execute their plan, they will go to be google of tablet/smartphone world (which may be entirely impossible 3-4 later).

So at the end of the day I think there is no way for them to lose or leave their current vision or they will lose a very big part of the market to their biggest rivals. If xbox didn't help them to reach their vision, it will not slow them, too. There is no need to being worry about XBOX.
 
So Nintendo only did the GC during that period?

Nope, but there were times where GC sales lagged and it affected Nintendo's profits. Back in 2005 and at the dawn of the new gen, GC sales fell off the cliff and Nintendo profits dropped by half in response. The DS was a year old at the time.
 
What's the point of keeping Xbox brand alive (xbox music/video/reader ...) and killing xbox's hardware?
Brand awareness. It can be incredibly difficult to build a brand and once established few companies would give a good brand up willingly. Being able to use a brand and have people immediately identify with it is a very powerful thing.

The iPod Touch bears zero relation to the original iPod other than they achieve the same thing and Apple could have started over with something new but there are more people on the planet who know what an iPod is than who don't. Lenovo bought ThinkPad from IBM for the brand.
 
Brand awareness. It can be incredibly difficult to build a brand and once established few companies would give a good brand up willingly. Being able to use a brand and have people immediately identify with it is a very powerful thing.

The iPod Touch bears zero relation to the original iPod other than they achieve the same thing and Apple could have started over with something new but there are more people on the planet who know what an iPod is than who don't. Lenovo bought ThinkPad from IBM for the brand.

Xbox is a popular brand in video games and they are using their video games consumers to give xbox wider identity. If microsoft didn't pay enough attention to xbox hardware/game aspect, xbox video, music, eReader, Cortana (voice assistance) and even xbox entertainment studios wouldn't be successful investments for microsoft.

They are using their xbox traditional consumers to give xbox brand more dimensions. It'll take years for them to achieve to that point.
 
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