Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[Nesh]

Zup very good account there. That's pretty much how a certain group of people see things. Its amazing that there are people who will on the one hand say no one is going after MS, then in the next breath say they deserve all the negative publicity they get and list x y and z reasons.

The problem is clearly visible in articles like the one mentioned in this thread because THERE ARE NO CLEAR linkages between anything that happened in the past and the organization and products that exist today. The comments below the article from former MS employees provide much more insight into MS' problems than anything highlighted by the article.

None of MS' current products are technologically bad or weak relative to their competition; in fact, they are very competitive. What has happened is that every device, service or acquisition is first looked at in a negative light, linked to past events that didn't work out well (zune, kin) then extrapolated into future failure, loss of market, being out of touch, in danger of dying, etc. This activity effectively kills all positive buzz about a product MONTHS before it even launches.

Then if the product does not sell well in the face such overwhelmingly negative press and video reviews (cnets review of the Lumia 1020 for example), then its looked at as ANOTHER failure and a pile on ensues. Very ingenious.

In the midst of that nonsense, if a counter narrative comes to light (eg Windows 8 has sold more than 150 licenses since last October) its caveated. "Oh well, we don't know how many is sold through","its only OEMs who HAVE to buy them...", "Sold out on xbox one means only means 1/3 of what sold out is on PS4" blah blah. Its so activist, pervasive and blatant, its a mystery as to how MS manages to make more money each quarter than the last.

I see all of this even as a former ipad, android phone, and current PS3 user.

Have you really read the article? You talk about the technology. Their missteps arent related to the competence of their technology

 

[joker454]

When I worked at MS, the thing to do every quarter was sell stock right before the earnings report, and buy after. We announced record profits for something like 12 quarters in a row, and every single time the stock would drop after the earnings release.

Lol it's funny you mention that, there have been a few things very profitable for us over the years like my leveraging the insanity of the sdf during the 2007-2009 timeframe made me a metric shit ton of money, and the Microsoft stock play you mention as well has made us a fair amount over the years. In that respect I love general bias as it has been extremely profitable for us with the sdf having paid for our primary house, and the Microsoft haters having paid for our beach property. I guess I should say thanks to all these haters

They should have unified WP7/Metro/Tablet app store years ago. And all apps should work on any device.

Yeah that should have been the case a long time ago, I don't understand what the delay is. I'd expand it further and include the X1's app store as well, everything needs to be one and the same. There have been some articles out lately that they are *finally* heading in that direction and that the app stores will all be merged in 1st quarter 2014...but still wtf was the holdup.

 

[MrFox]

Is this a stock recommendation thread?

lol I'm making so much money with this amazing stock, here's some tips how you too can buy the luxury car of your dreams.

 

[joker454]

Is this a stock recommendation thread?

lol I'm making so much money with this amazing stock, here's some tips how you too can buy the luxury car of your dreams.

It's to point out that bias is very strong and very real. In my case the proof being that the hate is so abundant and so predictable that I was able to profit from it immensely. People can deny it exists all they like but if it didn't exist then it would have been impossible to do what I did these past few years, simple as that. Or to simplify what I mean, I *literally* rode the hate wave to the bank, it was that abundant, that predictable and that easy.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The problem comes from the fact that while their services will still do well on the business side they are trying to be like Apple on the product side and they just don't have that audience who is willing to put up with what Apple fans are willing to put up with.

After a Diamond Rio 500, I bought my first iPod (20Gb) in 2002 and my first Mac around 2003/04. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be "putting up with" but in terms of digital content purchased, my 'rights' have only improved. Originally, you couldn't even re-download purchased music after the initial download. Apps I buy on both iOS and OSX can be run on multiple machines. That's pretty good for me as a consumer as I don't have to worry about licence transfers.

In the [non-PC] device space, the reason Microsoft is gain market tractions is because they were years behind iOS and Android and a lot of people have invested into existing device ecosystems. I've probably spent £200-300 on quality apps on iOS. For me to consider WindowsPhone or Windows on a tablet, the platform needs to be hellishly compelling and better than what or have for me to justify all the software costs as well - assuming there even is equivalent software.

Apple is pushy, killing off legacy everything ( which MS can't do as of yet ), keeping things in silos, forcing folks to do things they might not want do, but that is Apple that is not Microsoft.

What do Apple force their customers to do that they might not want to do? The last I checked it was a free market and people could chose to buy Apple or not. In terms of forcing people to do things, wasn't it Microsoft's original Xbox One ownership policies that forced consumer to surrender certain rights? Not an option, disc or digital, it was their way or the highway.

Microsoft's problems have nothing to do with Apple, nor consumer perception of Apple, nor the press treatment of Apple - which is pretty fucking awful also.

 

[-tkf-]

Windows 8 has sold more than 150 licenses since last October.

You must mean 150 million but you do understand that.

A: if you buy a pc there is no other choice.
B: if you just want a win 7 license for your company you buy a win 8 license "and downgrade"

So even if the number sounds impressive it's as close to useless as a success measure as it can be. Actually it can be argued it's a failure number because pcs are selling in lower numbers than before and windows 8 is part of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's to point out that bias is very strong and very real. In my case the proof being that the hate is so abundant and so predictable that I was able to profit from it immensely.

Is it bias or is it just piss poor tech analysis form Wall Street? Maybe you want to look at Apple stock pre and post quarterly filings, because the exact same thing happens, regular as clockwork. Record profits - QoQ, YoY - stock drops post-announcement.

This isn't some conspiracy against Microsoft.

 

[zupallinere]

After a Diamond Rio 500, I bought my first iPod (20Gb) in 2002 and my first Mac around 2003/04. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be "putting up with"

Not being able to move music files to and from the device anyway that you want to ? Loved the iPod but only because of the scroll wheel. I don't love itunes but smart playlists are cool.

Don't wanna go down this road it's long and tortuous and off topic.

Ill just say that even Andy Inatko, Apple Fan 4ever, uses Android because it affords him the freedom he wants. Yea for choice.

 

[joker454]

Is it bias or is it just piss poor tech analysis form Wall Street? Maybe you want to look at Apple stock pre and post quarterly filings, because the exact same thing happens, regular as clockwork. Record profits - QoQ, YoY - stock drops post-announcement.

This isn't some conspiracy against Microsoft.

It's not just confined to news articles, it goes far beyond that. For example every company I worked at had MS haters higher up, it was normal and it permeated every facet of the company including pr, the things they said in meetings and in public, and how they operated and set goals. Or going back to university, MS was widely hated by all my computer science teachers which dictated what they said, how they taught, the tech they used and the vitriol that they regularly spewed as 'fact'.

Whether or not they deserve it is another argument, but my point is once you recognize that hate/bias against MS is very real and very tangible then you can turn it into supplemental income, which I and others have done very successfully over the years. The internet age just took that to the next level of hate/income because of how widespread it's become and because of how it can influence people at viral speed. Ultimately that just meant far more profit in a far shorter period of time, which has been fabulous. Some recognize this mass bias, see an opportunity and profit. In my case I recognized it (and other madness like the sdf era) and profited hence I'm semi retired at 42. Others still don't believe it exists and don't profit. That's fine people can believe what they want, but I can't help but smile when I read it.

 

[wco81]

So the hate has nothing to do with anything MS has done in the past?

Like going after Netscape and all the anti trust actions came from thin air, haters and competitors, because MS actions and practices have been beyond reproach throughout his history?

There seems to be some whitewashing of history here.

 

[joker454]

So the hate has nothing to do with anything MS has done in the past?

Like going after Netscape and all the anti trust actions came from thin air, haters and competitors, because MS actions and practices have been beyond reproach throughout his history?

There seems to be some whitewashing of history here.

Like I said, whether or not it's justified is another discussion. I'm merely commenting on whether or not it exists.

 

[zed]

Ive said this before but will state again since some people dont seem to understand
Record profits - Huh. theres this thing called inflation etc which impacts monetary things. be them a companies earnings, a dude whos been down the burger joint flipping burgers for the last 15 years etc.
Now you dont hear mr flipper going, this year I made a record wage for the 15th straight year in a row. Its just the normal nature of things.

Windows 8 has sold more than 150 licenses since last October.

yeah ive brought 2 (well actually one, the other came with the laptop). Note after one year win 7 had sold 240 million licenses, so 150 million in about the same timeframe is pretty disappointing
food for thought though in the same timeframe google has sold ~500 million licenses

 

[wco81]

Like I said, whether or not it's justified is another discussion. I'm merely commenting on whether or not it exists.

Well people know that the only reason MS is able to sustain businesses like bing, Windows Phone, Surface and other money losing businesses (including xbox through at least the first 7 or8 years) is because of profits from Office and Windows and they used practices which were widely reviled to gain and protect their dominance..

 

[joker454]

Well people know that the only reason MS is able to sustain businesses like bing, Windows Phone, Surface and other money losing businesses (including xbox through at least the first 7 or8 years) is because of profits from Office and Windows and they used practices which were widely reviled to gain and protect their dominance..

Every company does stuff like that though when they are in a position to do so, it's not a behavior unique to Microsoft. Look at Nintendo in the 80s in the NES era, they actively prevented 3rd parties from putting their games on the competing Sega console at the time which killed Sega's Master System. They had the leverage to do that, so they did it. Or look at what Google tries today by blocking Youtube on windows phone. They have the leverage to do it, so they do it. It's just business as usual.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Like I said, whether or not it's justified is another discussion. I'm merely commenting on whether or not it exists.

It exists but is Microsoft hate any more prevalent than Apple hate or Google hate? Based on the websites I visit, no. But a lot of people disliking Microsoft can likely be attributed to their experiences with Microsoft software. Maybe their PC is naff and they don't know, blame Windows. Maybe their work IT department have not set things up properly, blame Microsoft.

I don't see a lot of irrational hate of Microsoft, or rather I see people who dislike Microsoft with some reason, even if it's misguided. Any poor experience with a product (crashing software, RRoD, PlaysForSure etc) or company will inform such views, it's human nature, and Microsoft software has been in a lot of places over the years and it hasn't always been good.

 

[Pozer]

So the hate has nothing to do with anything MS has done in the past?

Like going after Netscape and all the anti trust actions came from thin air, haters and competitors, because MS actions and practices have been beyond reproach throughout his history?

There seems to be some whitewashing of history here.

Apple and Nintendo are held in a worship status by many consumers and their practices in their anticonsumer practices in the 80's far exceeded many of MS's. What apple did to its clone makers, and competitors trying to get into schools. Nintendo was the dirtiest of dirty concerning licensing of software for the NES. Ala 'you better not make a game for a competing system or you'll be blackballed'...
Yet consumers in their 20's and early 30's see these brands as snow white innoscense status.

I think part of it is a hip factor. MS is seen as monolithic IBM of the 80's. White shirt, tie, where your dad works, stats quo type, stole everything and assimilated, etc..

Part of it is the media machine went full bore on them at a time when many americans were buying and learning their first pc. "Hey Mr computer guy. Why is my PC hard to use?" Well they can either say 'you're stupid" or throw MS under the bus. When in reality these users would've killed themselves if being forced on any Linux distro of the time.

Most if it is undeserved. Some of it is. I think the task they had of writing universalOS for thousands of different pieces of hardware. There was never going to be a happy all solution or even close. Apple is starting to fall in this trap. IOS is stale but they can't change it too much.

 

[MrFox]

Let me Godwin this thread, since it's heading toward more victim bullshit again.

Apple being worse than MS doesn't make MS a victim of the media. Nobody would use the argument that Stalin was worse than Hitler as an argument to prove anything.

 

[tuna]

I do not see how people hating MS will make the MS stock perform better in the market. MS being able to squeeze out more money from enterprise customers is the reason for the MS stock still going strong.

 

[temesgen]

Is it bias or is it just piss poor tech analysis form Wall Street? Maybe you want to look at Apple stock pre and post quarterly filings, because the exact same thing happens, regular as clockwork. Record profits - QoQ, YoY - stock drops post-announcement.

This isn't some conspiracy against Microsoft.

Its bias if you can somehow logically twist always on console DRM policy complaints and the lack of complaints about an internet connection for Youtube, Netflix as some sort of double standard - both require the internet afterall....

You should also ignore many articles written from 2006 thru 2010 regarding Sony and PS3 to conclude the media is out to hang MS in favor or Sony, Google and Apple. Or better yet ignore all the NSA/Google articles since Snowden and many of the Apple articles since Jobs left the company.

 

[MrFox]

... or when using the stupid stock picks argument, that someone made money with MS because of "bias", it's better to ignore the media saying in december that sony was basically fucked, and it was junk, and it was doomed.... since then those who ignored the bias against Sony more than doubled their money.