Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[wco81]

Nor is a console in general, if you don't own a TV. The value of a feature is determined by the userbase and the pool of potential consumers not by any one individual.

Right and you guys keep saying casuals or the mass public will go for these XBone media features.

But that's putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

Let's see what happens, though MS has some very bullish expectations about how many units they will sell this generation. Sounds like they're expecting to sell several times the number of X1s as the 360s.

But at launch, they're not going to sell in China or Japan, the second and third or fourth largest economies in the world?

BTW, the installed base for the set top boxes which stream Netflix and so on isn't even 100 million units yet. It may not even be 50 million.

I'm not even sure how many cable and satellite boxes there are either.

But it sounds like MS expects to replace all of them ...

 

[wco81]

Its unified messaging so all of your devices will "ring". You could receive a call but happen to get the notification on your tv/xbox one because that's where you were at that moment. Take the call or not.

I'm curious, among those who have modern smart phones and tablets, how often do you have one or more of these devices with most of the times, including when you're sitting in front of the TV?

I'm thinking most -- well over half -- of the hundreds of millions of mobile devices in use are almost always within reach when their owners are watching TV.

That's why the Skype and the fantasy football and other second screen features of the X1 may be redundant.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Right and you guys keep saying casuals or the mass public will go for these XBone media features.

But that's putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

Let's see what happens, though MS has some very bullish expectations about how many units they will sell this generation. Sounds like they're expecting to sell several times the number of X1s as the 360s.

But at launch, they're not going to sell in China or Japan, the second and third or fourth largest economies in the world?

BTW, the installed base for the set top boxes which stream Netflix and so on isn't even 100 million units yet. It may not even be 50 million.

I'm not even sure how many cable and satellite boxes there are either.

But it sounds like MS expects to replace all of them ...

I don't get the way they have divided their launch countries up? It seems weird that countries like Portugal or Poland won't be getting any at launch and imports won't even work. Must be odd for CDProjekt, they'll launch the Witcher on the Xbone and no one in their home country will be able to play it. Unless they own a PC or a PS4.

 

[Rangers]

Right and you guys keep saying casuals or the mass public will go for these XBone media features.

But that's putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

Let's see what happens, though MS has some very bullish expectations about how many units they will sell this generation. Sounds like they're expecting to sell several times the number of X1s as the 360s.

But at launch, they're not going to sell in China or Japan, the second and third or fourth largest economies in the world?

BTW, the installed base for the set top boxes which stream Netflix and so on isn't even 100 million units yet. It may not even be 50 million.

I'm not even sure how many cable and satellite boxes there are either.

But it sounds like MS expects to replace all of them ...

At the price of 499, you arent going to do super gigantic numbers imo.

you have to get that price down to go really mainstream.

 

[ERP]

I'm curious, among those who have modern smart phones and tablets, how often do you have one or more of these devices with most of the times, including when you're sitting in front of the TV?

I'm thinking most -- well over half -- of the hundreds of millions of mobile devices in use are almost always within reach when their owners are watching TV.

That's why the Skype and the fantasy football and other second screen features of the X1 may be redundant.

The problem is I'm usually using the tablet, and it's inconvenient to swap away from the active app.
Technically I can control my DirectTV recorder from my tablet, I rarely actually do it because I'm usually doing something else with it and the UI doesn't lend itself to swapping away from what I'm doing.
Just because I can do something on any device doesn't make it the best place to do it.
For MS to succeed with the additional functionality it has to be a good user experience I have no idea if they have pulled that off.

As an aside it's why I think arguing about features is idiotic, it's not about individual feature parity or extra features, it's the whole package that matters. Be interesting to see who has the more compelling package when people actually get to use them in real environments.

 

[temesgen]

Why do you keep trying to insist that a value add convenience must be worth the entire value of the package? Various features add value to a package, I don't know that many people will just buy an xbox one as a harmony replacement, but there are probably some that will see the value in an xbox one over buying 2 devices to achieve the same goals.

I said clearly in the post you referenced that it wasn't exactly a fair comparison but its part of the problem - I have to make a sizable investment and commit to ongoing fees to take advantage of the service.

I think I've been honest in an attempt to have an objective conversation about all of this; I've been critical of both Sony and MS which is more than I can say for many other posters but if I'm offending you feel free to put me on ignore or to simply not respond.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is XB1 based Skype only XB1 to XB1?

No, but I mean the idea of sitting in front of the TV Skyping. I've video chatted a couple of times with family members and it's involved phoning or texting we're around and setting it up. Spontaneous video calls TV to TV are a long way off because there isn't a standard, unless you both have an XB1. If every TV came with Skype as standard, it'd be a different story.

Skype on lots of devices also devalue that proposition for XB1. You can video stream your tablet to the TV for example. Yes, XB1 definitely offers a significant user experience advantage without needing to change input, but the value of that, especially for tech-savvy core gamers, is limited.

 

[NavNucST3]

Is XB1 based Skype only XB1 to XB1?

It is Skype ecosystem not XBOX One specific (currently).

 

[Dave Baumann]

But at launch, they're not going to sell in China or Japan, the second and third or fourth largest economies in the world?

Consoles are restricted (/ banned) in China in the first place. Hence the popularity of PC's in i-Cafes.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Spontaneous video calls TV to TV are a long way off because there isn't a standard, unless you both have an XB1. If every TV came with Skype as standard, it'd be a different story.

As already discussed, pretty much any SmartTV out there from any of the vendors have Skype pre-installed as an app, its just question of whether they come with the camera as standard or as an extra.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Skype being crashy on PC's either, works fine for us over multiple OS's.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Crashes on my, my friends, and my sister's Windows 7 PCs. Only time I've ever got BSOD was after swapping Messenger for Skype. Haven't found any chat client as simple, stylish, and effective as Messenger.

As for Skype on smart TVs, I readjust my position to XB1's Skype being beneficial if your contacts have XB1's or modern Smart TVs. It's more likely people will video chat over tablets. Again, it is of value, don't get me wrong, but it's hardly a feature that's going to have massive appeal. It's a convenience feature, a +1 on the general consideration against the more pressing considerations of games, price, UI, running costs, end-user experience (there can be lots of stupid user experiences like Sony's insane "can only use movies on one console and cannot deactivate that console without phoning Sony up and asking their permission). But as Skype and NFL and that whole TV-lifestyle user experience is the basis of MS's product, those +1's don't add up to much for a lot of the consumers who are complaining about the product.

 

[NavNucST3]

I've talked about this before but I have numerous devices that have Netflix on them but most of the implementations are hot garbage which is why I use the 360 version...since I'm already using it and it performs "better" than my other devices that is its value proposition for me. In fact, good enough, would make it preferred just to stay in one familiar system. The Apple TV version isn't awful like my bluray players implementation and I no longer have a PS3 which I've heard might have been the best implementation overall.

Is it go out and buy a new console better, of course not, all of that stuff is just a value add or bullet points.

Though I get the general feeling that the price is high at least in comparison to their competition there's still no console that has the marketing capabilities of the 360 with the dashboard emblazoned with XBOX One ads. While the core may hate ads...there is NO better place to market or advertise to someone than on their current console every time they turn it on.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I said clearly in the post you referenced that it wasn't exactly a fair comparison but its part of the problem - I have to make a sizable investment and commit to ongoing fees to take advantage of the service.

I think I've been honest in an attempt to have an objective conversation about all of this; I've been critical of both Sony and MS which is more than I can say for many other posters but if I'm offending you feel free to put me on ignore or to simply not respond.

I'm not offended, it just seems like a pointless argument to suggest that one aspect of a device needs to offer value equal to the total cost of that device. I didn't pay $40000 for the stereo in my car, I paid for the entire package. If the whole package doesn't offer value to you equal to the cost, buy something else. People will obviously value features differently and will make their decisions accordingly.

 

[dobwal]

Right and you guys keep saying casuals or the mass public will go for these XBone media features.

But that's putting the cart before the horse, isn't it?

Let's see what happens, though MS has some very bullish expectations about how many units they will sell this generation. Sounds like they're expecting to sell several times the number of X1s as the 360s.

But at launch, they're not going to sell in China or Japan, the second and third or fourth largest economies in the world?

BTW, the installed base for the set top boxes which stream Netflix and so on isn't even 100 million units yet. It may not even be 50 million.

I'm not even sure how many cable and satellite boxes there are either.

But it sounds like MS expects to replace all of them ...

Im not saying that the casuals will readily accept these features as valuable. I'm saying we as pretty much hardcore gamers are in no way an authority of casuals buying behaviors especially when we allow our own circumstances, behaviors and biases to influence the valuation of a feature in relation to the overall gaming market.

China has banned the sale of gaming consoles since 2000. There is the gray market market but bootleg titles go for $1.60 as most consoles are hacked before sold. And MS managed to sell 75-80 million consoles with literally no support in Japan.

 

[temesgen]

I'm not offended, it just seems like a pointless argument to suggest that one aspect of a device needs to offer value equal to the total cost of that device. I didn't pay $40000 for the stereo in my car, I paid for the entire package. If the whole package doesn't offer value to you equal to the cost, buy something else. People will obviously value features differently and will make their decisions accordingly.

k - sorry if my response seemed harsh. Internet can be open to interpretation at times.

 

[bkilian]

I've talked about this before but I have numerous devices that have Netflix on them but most of the implementations are hot garbage which is why I use the 360 version...since I'm already using it and it performs "better" than my other devices that is its value proposition for me. In fact, good enough, would make it preferred just to stay in one familiar system. The Apple TV version isn't awful like my bluray players implementation and I no longer have a PS3 which I've heard might have been the best implementation overall.

Apple TV is reasonable for netflix, but the inconsistent "move to the next episode" stuff irritates me a lot. Sometimes when I hit "menu" after watching a show it automatically moves to the next episode, but mostly it doesn't, leaving me having to guess sometimes which episode I just watched.

The 360's implementation is just flawless in this area. Not only does it move to the next episode, it will automatically play it unless you don't want it to. I love that. If the 360's implementation was faster to load, didn't ask me about adult or kid netflix every time, got rid of the ANNOYING attempt to stop you exiting it, and was easier to get to with a remote control ("Wife acceptance factor"), we'd never use the apple tv for netflix.

 

[eastmen]

the way I see it going down for me .


htpc into xbox one into av reciver into tv.

vs currently

htpc to av receiver

xbox 360 to av receiver

bluray player to av receiver.



Way it works now

I get a call or text message to get on live to play a game. So I stop my tv show and change input on my receiver power on the xbox and then put the disc I want to play into my xbox and wait for it to load and get in game.


Way it will work in the future. I'm watching tv and get a pop up saying my gf invited me to a game , accept it and game loads up and boom i'm playing.


I will take the second option every day I use my 360 over my htpc for Netflix and hulu because of this . Adding live tv and bluray is nice (though I only own like 15 blurays and they are mostly disney animation)

 

[Tap In]

That's the point, if Windows tablets and smart phones had dominant market shares and people were using those devices for the "second screen" experience while watching TV, these Xbone features would not have developed in the same ways.

MS wants to divert eyeballs from iOS and Android devices.

BTW, XBL has advertising so that should continue, yes? So in the TV overlays, are they going to supervise their own ads over the TV signal? And you get to pay XBL for this?

myth rumor... there is NO advertising on Xbox dash,.... except for one small usually game relevant sponsor ad in the corner box of 8 boxes that you have to navigate to explicitly to see. they will not stream their own ads over a tv signal that already has ads


and Smartglass has nothing to do with Surface or MS tablets, they are for ANY device that runs the smart glass app including iPhone/Pad and Android devices... smart glass is the most ubiquitous of all second screen devices on the gaming market.

 

[wco81]

Skype is slow on Blu-Ray player and TVs because the SOCs or embedded processors they use are cheap and weak.

The SOC used in the Apple TV isn't bad but probably no match for the CPUs and GPUs used on current gen consoles, not to mention next gen consoles.

But they're iterating almost every year. Some day, they may have Siri-controlled Netflix in a $99 box with no service fees.

 

[Ons::lob::]

I'm not sure if it was said already or if I missed it, but I've been reading through this thread and I have a question. Isn't it more profitable for Sony and Microsoft to have a higher games attach rate with their console?

If the ps4 is 100$ cheaper then wouldn't that give sony the advantage of a higher possible attach rate than MS of at least one game (Assuming games are 60$)?

Wouldn't that be a better business strategy than to release with the ps eye (More hardware)?

I would imagine that in the long run it wouldn't be much of a big deal, but for launch this could be huge. What are your thoughts?