Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[wco81]

Probably the same people who though the Surface would be a smash hit -- some still do.

There are millions of AV receivers out there. People switch among sources instantly.

The voice command is unique but pay $500 and XBL Gold for it?

Don't be surprised if some future revision of Apple TV comes with Siri for $99 and no service fees to use it other than connecting to your home network which connects to the ISP you're already paying for (just like you would with Xbone).

 

[Strange]

If I'm reading some posts properly it seems Microsoft has clearly determined that Japan is not in their best interest.

Info has it that they're releasing in Asia/Japan 1 year later.

 

[Rockster]

It's not about switching as much as it is multitasking. How do you know your multiplayer game is ready if you've switched inputs to do something else. The whole point is to be able to know what's going on all the time and not leaving one experience for another.

I think Microsoft has done a poor job of illustrating its use cases. Ironically, I think this is because people don't have the patience to watch them go through a bunch of scenarios, of which only some may pertain to them. I say ironically because, it's the consumers lack of patience and short attention span which drove them to build the system in this way. Allowing them to do multiple things simultaneously, and change gears quickly; which drove the need to be diskless; which drove the need for DRM; which they are all upset about. Lol!

They definitely didn't design this for the guy who is going to play Skyrim or something for 38 hours straight and blot out the world. This is for the people who want to be able to pop around to different experiences in short increments with their friends and be constantly engaged with new stuff.

My sense is that they won't drop price or alter course, until the systems have been released for a few months, and people can get a real sense for how they work and start to appreciate the conveniences and flexibility of an all digital, connected, nui driven system vs. status quo. Once all the early adopters have moved on and Joe Consumer starts voting with his wallet is when they will really start paying close attention. If their system sucks and provides a crappy experience (ir blaster), then they are definitely in trouble. The reality is the war hasn't even started yet, so declaring it over is beyond premature.

 

[warb]

I'm still keeping a few remotes on hand to get from games to TV and back. If I can switch on the TV and find exactly what I'm looking for with a few words, that's pretty amazing. Then there are the extras like Skype and the browser/apps, available in few words with no faffing around. I'm assuming kinect & voice is significantly improved for XBone.

Under that you've still got a capable next-gen console and lot of games.

 

[Phil]

Well we have a difference of opinion then because I think fast realtime switching of simultaneously active inputs between my game, the internet, streaming sources, and television is the bees knees. With the option to use voice, motion or controller...? Thats some futuristic shyt

Sounds like people are excited about a feature, purely because it is one, rather than because of its practicality...

...and as has been pointed out, TVs and receivers have been doing this out of the box, since 15 years at least.

I may get the point being able to use the internet, because it might be relevant to the watching TV or gaming bit - but the smartphones and tablets of today has made this rather a redundant feature in my eyes. I used to use the browser on the PS3 - it was clumsy and hardly readable - because unlike a PC monitor, the Television set isn't exactly 30 inches from my eyes, but more like a few feet. Not exactly practical. And with saying that, no, even a browser that would have worked better would have changed that drawback.


PS: Also, my receiver is already the center of my equipment. I don't think I have much reason to replace it with a box with a clumsy HDMI in and out, sans the fancy Kinect stuff of course. But that's just me and may not apply to the majority of people that are excited about the Xbox One. I'm just saying - I'm not looking to replace my other investment with something that can't really be the center of the livingroom well.

 

[wco81]

That's the point, if Windows tablets and smart phones had dominant market shares and people were using those devices for the "second screen" experience while watching TV, these Xbone features would not have developed in the same ways.

MS wants to divert eyeballs from iOS and Android devices.

BTW, XBL has advertising so that should continue, yes? So in the TV overlays, are they going to supervise their own ads over the TV signal? And you get to pay XBL for this?

 

[NavNucST3]

Info has it that they're releasing in Asia/Japan 1 year later.

I see Asia listed as upcoming countries but I do not see Japan listed anywhere maybe I missed it in my skimming. It will be interesting to see if they have indeed decided the cost of doing business there (from a hardware perspective) wasn't worth it.

 

[expletive]

Sounds like people are excited about a feature, purely because it is one, rather than because of its practicality...

...and as has been pointed out, TVs and receivers have been doing this out of the box, since 15 years at least.

PS: Also, my receiver is already the center of my equipment. I don't think I have much reason to replace it with a box with a clumsy HDMI in and out, sans the fancy Kinect stuff of course. But that's just me and may not apply to the majority of people that are excited about the Xbox One. I'm just saying - I'm not looking to replace my other investment with something that can't really be the center of the livingroom well.

If i can pipe my Live TV feed through the XBO, thats 95% of what i do on one input/device (the other 5% being some random AirPlay stuff when called for). More importantly, it's 100% of what my wife, kids, parent, babysitter do on the TV screen and theyll theoretically never need to pick up a remote with 100 buttons on it to operate any of it.

The fast switching may be a convenience but i think theres a nuanced benefit to it in terms of pausing the game state, mixing audio properly, and still being connected to your friends that ties it all together quite nicely.

 

[blakjedi]

I should point out that most people already have something like this. My television has 6 inputs - and all it takes is one press of a button on my remote to switch between television, internet, streaming, and gaming. I don't actually use that though. I have a decent reciever and a 4x2 matrix HDMI switch that not only allows real time switching but allows me to do two at the same time if I choose.

If you were to point out the "innovative" part of what MS did it isn't the switching - it is trying to integrate those into one service/device rather than the switching. Right now, most media consumers keep an array of devices on their stands. Personally, I have three game consoles, a reciever, a cable box, a TiVo box (because I can't stand the cable DVR), a router, and a NAS. Microsoft is trying to combine those into one "media" hub.

This is where we get into the "compelling" argument. My setup with a decent remote (I use the Harmony 720) allows me to do basically everything the XBox does - in many cases in a fashion better than what the XBox would provide. About the only feature I don't have is voice control, and that is more by choice right now than by lack of options.

That doesn't mean the XBox doesn't offer me something else. It is just right now I can't see it. I would think that I'm the type of person that the media features would be aimed at. The price doesn't bother me, I currently own an XBox, and media is important to me. That is why I asked people to define why they thought the XBox would be a better media source. I wanted to see if people could make a case for someone like me with a mid-range AV setup to use the XBox as part of my setup.

I only mentioned the PS3 because it actually achieved that goal last generation. It currently serves as my DVD / Blu-Ray / Streaming device. I use both the 360 and the PS3 for gaming. Given the initial attachment ratio for PS3 games and the statistics released on Blu-Ray use during the first couple of years, it seems several million other consumers did the same thing. I guess it is just me - but I have a hard time thinking that the media features alone on the XBox could sell several million consoles right now. I was hoping someone would explain why they thought it would.

i see where you are going. For some reason i intrinsically conflated the convergence aspect of having multiple data and info streams on screen with the fast switching aspect. I see how your perspective has the two ideas separate.

so XB1 is like a modern smartphone:

-music so no need for a separate mp3 player or cd player
-movies with a catalog
-live television
-potentially dvr/on-demand services through cable box access
-Gaming
-blu ray drive
-internet resources
-visual telecom through skype
-interactive shared gaming through twitch

all active all available, all visible without fussing with inputs... you ever try to explain to your mother in law or heck wife that the apple tv is on input two?

XB1 avoids all of that connected chaos in an easy, visual, on screen convergence metaphor. I think its pretty slick if it works as advertised. We will see.

 

[blakjedi]

That's the point, if Windows tablets and smart phones had dominant market shares and people were using those devices for the "second screen" experience while watching TV, these Xbone features would not have developed in the same ways.

MS wants to divert eyeballs from iOS and Android devices.

BTW, XBL has advertising so that should continue, yes? So in the TV overlays, are they going to supervise their own ads over the TV signal? And you get to pay XBL for this?

I have to disagree with that. Smartglass works on iOS and Android too...

thats enabling the devices not diverting.

MS is all about services and ecosystem now. if they can extend it to your platform of choice and materially injure themselves.. they will.

MS and Google may not get along as organizations, but MS makes a lot of money with each Android device sold.

 

[temesgen]

I'm not really seeing the advantage to fast switching between media as a benefit, if I'm watching a movie or TV show that will last anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple hours. The last thing I want to have happen when I am watching something is for my wife/kid switch the channel or turn on a game or music and vice versa. It just doesn't make sense.... Fast switching between games might make sense in some situations, same could be possible with listening to music as each song only last 3 to 5 minutes or there about. But I'd like someone who is sold on this advantage to walk thru some real life scenarios where this is actually useful.

Also the whole hands free voice commands benefit is overstated IMO, the remote is pretty much the idea way to handle controlling your TV/DVD/DVR. Getting amped over voice controls seems to me very much like the excitement for motion controls, it sounds good in theory but in many instances its worse than the traditional controller. Yes there are applications where hands free voice controls would be nice for people who can't otherwise operate a remote but I don't think the price of admission (500 down and a monthly subscription) warrants all this fuss. Perhaps there is a market for that but I doubt it runs in the millions.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You could play a turn based game during commercials of the game you're watching, or check the online guide for a spot you're having trouble with in a game. There's countless scenarios where switching will be a nice convenience.

 

[expletive]

You could play a turn based game during commercials of the game you're watching, or check the online guide for a spot you're having trouble with in a game. There's countless scenarios where switching will be a nice convenience.

If XBO pauses the game state (which i believe it does), it wouldn't even need to be a turn based game, it could be anything you weren't playing with/against other people.

 

[temesgen]

You could play a turn based game during commercials of the game you're watching, or check the online guide for a spot you're having trouble with in a game. There's countless scenarios where switching will be a nice convenience.

How much is that worth to the consumer? I agree that gamers might like that and it seems that both PS4 and XB1 will allow you to switch from games to browser pretty seamlessly but is that something casuals are prepared to pay hundreds of dollars for?

Edit: just saw Jedi's list - thanks for sharing it sounds like your not talking some much about speed but about the robust options available from the hub and to some degree I agree with you. Again for me it comes down to price, the interface and familiar the applications will be. For example Skype IMO is brilliant, its an app most people have used before, they can import their contact list and at the holidays when everyone is gaming/watching movies they can pause the action when they see relatives online and talk while jr streams his game to his tablet. Now that is pretty cool but its an example of MS not getting the messaging down properly because nobody has ever shared that example prior to this discussion even though I am sure the designers had scenarios like this in mind when they designed it. Again MS is still in beta with their messaging....

 

[blakjedi]

They already showed pinning fantasy stats to the screen, jumping from a skype call to movie, watching a show and looking up characters plot etc. Buying tickets for the latest movie say Man of Steel, while watching Superman returns.

People hate their remotes. thats why the universal remote companies stay in business... but remotes are like physical keyboards on phones... we are still looking for a better way to interact with our devices than a confusing multi button hardware device.

 

[AlphaWolf]

How much is that worth to the consumer? I agree that gamers might like that and it seems that both PS4 and XB1 will allow you to switch from games to browser pretty seamlessly but is that something casuals are prepared to pay hundreds of dollars for?

People already pay hundreds of dollars for universal remotes, or for game consoles, or tablets or countless other things. Adding convenience just makes the package more attractive. For myself if all the next consoles offered was higher rendering performance, I would have near zero interest (as my current pc already will outperform them).

 

[temesgen]

What is the market for a 500 remote that has a monthly fee and in many cases isn't as convenient as the universal remote that cost 50 to 100 bucks and has no additional fees? The question isn't exactly fair but you get my point, consumers have real choices to make where their investment in technology is concerned and there are devices that cost a fraction which are struggling with penetrating the market.

It pretty clear that someone sat down and looked at the features associated with tablets, dvrs, laptops and consoles and said lets build a device that can offer the following services on one device. Not a bad idea but coming up with a coherent message so consumers know what it is and isn't is going to be a challenge. I do think it's bold and I am glad that they are taking the risk.

 

[NavNucST3]

I think many of these arguments are stuck in a 2013 frame of mind. Sure maybe for those of us with AVR's and Harmony remotes can't see the value of the XBOX One, although, to me that seems counterintuitive since we have all this extra gear in the first place in the name of convenience and my AVR alone cost as much as the One and my Harmony remote was almost $300.

Maybe it's just my Onkyo (which I'm not actually a fan of) but it certainly does NOT do "instant" switching if you're one of the people that complain about lag in Kinect then AVR lag must drive you insane because mine takes seconds to switch, show video, and even longer before sound is available. On my sons admittedly low budget 40" tv it takes maybe a second or more to go from HDMI input one to input 2 before the display shows a picture (no AVR in his room).

In 2005 I never imagined buying entire seasons of TV shows on my game console or from iTunes. I didn't necessarily envision not running to the mailbox to get my latest netflix movie. Hell, I certainly didn't expect that I could pre-order the next console FROM my console (360 dash will take you to a microsoft store pre-filled pre-order if you have a payment method attached to your profile).


EDIT:
Decided to go into amazon to find what I actually paid for some of my setup
APC AV J10BLK Home Theater 1000VA Battery Backup, Power Filter and Power Conditioner (BLACK)
Item(s) Subtotal: $399.00
Shipping & Handling: $3.99
-----
Total before tax: $402.99
Estimated tax to be collected: $0.00
-----
Grand Total: $402.99

Logitech Harmony 900 Rechargeable Remote with Color Touch Screen
Item(s) Subtotal: $277.72
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
-----
Total before tax: $277.72
Sales Tax: $0.00
-----
Total for This Shipment: $277.72

Onkyo TX-SR608 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver (Black)
Item(s) Subtotal: $375.68
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
-----
Total before tax: $375.68
Sales Tax: $0.00
-----
Total for This Shipment: $375.68 <----looks like I was wrong about the AVR costing as much as a One

 

[upnorthsox]

What is the market for a 500 remote that has a monthly fee and in many cases isn't as convenient as the universal remote that cost 50 to 100 bucks and has no additional fees? The question isn't exactly fair but you get my point, consumers have real choices to make where their investment in technology is concerned and there are devices that cost a fraction which are struggling with penetrating the market.

It pretty clear that someone sat down and looked at the features associated with tablets, dvrs, laptops and consoles and said lets build a device that can offer the following services on one device. Not a bad idea but coming up with a coherent message so consumers know what it is and isn't is going to be a challenge. I do think it's bold and I am glad that they are taking the risk.

And wont work on your AV Receiver. I've been thru all this with the PS3 and its still the same for XB1, you can't control upstream components with CEC. An HDMI IN doesn't change that.

 

[patsu]

Be prepared for tablets to replace remote. It has started to eat into PC, TV, physical books and magazines, may be car entertainment. Bedroom is already in the bag. Livingroom and kitchen may be next.

Remote for HT and home automation is tablet territory. MS knows that.

The only thing may be home security, which requires a permanent unit at home. And MS knows that too.

Edit: VoIP like Skype, FaceTime, WhatsApp, GoogleTalk is tablet territory also.