KILLZONE Shadow Fall [PS4]

I am not a mo-cap expert so I can't really tell if that setup is adequate or even if it's better than other performance capture setups like the one used by David Cage.
Are you a mo-cap expert?
 
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I am not a mo-cap expert so I can't really tell if that setup is adequate or eve if it's better than other performance capture setups like the one used by David Cage.
Are you a mo-cap expert?

You don't have to be a mocap expert to know that there are limitations on a engine in recreating the exact motion captures. That's why these games, like RYSE, are pushing more and more joints in the face to enhance them.

Realism in stuff like this is subtle changes in expression and more full motion of the muscles in the face. If you can't properly recreate this you're just going to end up in the uncanny valley.

I suspect it's a lot like sound recording for a racing game, you can perfectly record a sound of a car but recreating that sound in a game is full of hardware and software limitations that will continue to change overtime.
 
You don't have to be a mocap expert to know that there are limitations on a engine in recreating the exact motion captures. That's why these games, like RYSE, are pushing more and more joints in the face to enhance them.

I frankly am just saying that in theory with performance capture then they should be able to achieve better animations compered to KZ 2/3 that didn't sue performance capture.
BTW there are some details here.
 
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The only issue for me with this shot is all the guards/soldiers are exactly the same. I really hope we start to see some variety in the sizes, builds and some variation in the characters this generation. Procedurally it shouldn't be too tough to create some variety and as part of start of level randomly assemble some textures for the level and variation for the NPCs. Personally I'd prefer to see that than most other things.

Issues are:
- procedural variation of looks can't be properly art directed and may look bad... it is however done even in COD games, but only for stuff like ammo pouches, helmets etc.
- amount of content to build, it can become a problem very quickly
- animations are usually processed for one skeleton, and procedurally changing that for different bodies is usually a problem; also, storing several sets of animation for more skeletons multiplies memory consumption
 
I am not a mo-cap expert so I can't really tell if that setup is adequate or even if it's better than other performance capture setups like the one used by David Cage.
Are you a mo-cap expert?

I am, sort of.

However I'd say the work looks more like it's been rushed. Not enough polish on the geometry, textures, shaders, bone weighting... Also, the quality is all over the place, the girl's face has nice speculars and small scale details and highlights in her eye. The guy in the hat looks like a photo texture on top of a super simple model with almost no specular, no eyelash geometry etc. The black guy is somewhere between the two.

The deformations aren't too nice though, no volume preservation, no feeling of skin. This is also the hardest to get right. It takes a LOT of work and huge effort and the learning curve is looong.

In my opinion, KZSF is really lacking here, not just to other nextgen games it's compared with, but even the previous gen's final releases like Last of Us or Halo 4.


I'd rather not get into other comparisions about the game, it's a nice overall package but I think it's clearly been rushed and there'll be a lot of improvement in future GG titles.
 
I frankly am just saying that in theory with performance capture then they should be able to achieve better animations compered to KZ 2/3 that didn't sue performance capture.

That's what it's called - theory. Practice can be very different.
 
Yeah.

For the record I am not saying that KZ SF is the best looking game out, it's a launch title so it won't represent the apex of PS4 capabilities and I will probably enjoy it even if it has "defects".
Also even if it was the best looking game out on consoles I don't' buy games based on graphics so it would not matter much.
 
Fraps gives horrible screencaps from MPC videos.. Is there nay better way to get good quality screengrabs from a video? Take it in to a compositing software and render stills? too much trouble :-/

MPC has built in feature to save screenshot :) Look in the menus.
 
I frankly am just saying that in theory with performance capture then they should be able to achieve better animations compered to KZ 2/3 that didn't sue performance capture.
BTW there are some details here.

Well of course but just because they are better than KZ2/3 don't mean they are very good. Although I'll say it again that I'll wait till it's on my TV for final judgements but that probably won't be till sometime in 2014.

Yeah.

For the record I am not saying that KZ SF is the best looking game out, it's a launch title so it won't represent the apex of PS4 capabilities and I will probably enjoy it even if it has "defects".
Also even if it was the best looking game out on consoles I don't' buy games based on graphics so it would not matter much.

The problem is that this is the game that will be carrying the PS4 at launch and it needs to hold itself up to do so. I think it will make a good launch title but I wish we had something like Infamous or The Order at launch to go with it. It's understandable why some people are now back off from their preorders until Driveclub and Infamous come out.
 
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I must admit that when the game was revealed, I was quite impressed (not with the art direction, but with the overall looks).

Now, after watching the new trailer...I am a bit underwhelmed to be honest: the crazy flare effects look wrong and are JJ Abrams style embarrassing to me.

Worst thing, as pointed out by Laa-Yosh are the characters...if it is due to being rushed or the artists not quite familiar with the new tech...I don't know. But, after playing The Last of Us, I naively hoped to get such quality as a base next gen...but it just shows again that imo human faces are the most difficult thing out there to get right and artist capabilities can easily out do advanced on paper technology.

It looks nice and good imo, nothing to complain from my side. But it is for me so far not the best looking launch game out there. But I will judge again once I have played all of them :)
 
While I can agree that there is room for improvement in face textures and animation when comparing to TLoU or Halo4, they are still wery detailed and one of the best in the industry. May I please remind you GTAV, 250 mln dollar game, where facial animation was not so great, despite the fact that Rockstar has technology (L.A. Noir), time and resources for making it better.

Some of the opinions in this thread (that graphics is flat, bad and outdated) are just off. Please understand that, repeating them won't make KZ an ugly game, likewise you won't make a donut out of shithorse just by claiming it. I know, I know - if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, but let's leave it. KZ has great enviroments, epic battles, detailed objects and textures, plenty of effects. It is not flawless, but it's great.
 
While I can agree that there is room for improvement in face textures and animation when comparing to TLoU or Halo4, they are still wery detailed and one of the best in the industry. May I please remind you GTAV, 250 mln dollar game, where facial animation was not so great, despite the fact that Rockstar has technology (L.A. Noir), time and resources for making it better.

Some of the opinions in this thread (that graphics is flat, bad and outdated) are just off. Please understand that, repeating them won't make KZ an ugly game, likewise you won't make a donut out of shithorse just by claiming it. I know, I know - if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, but let's leave it. KZ has great enviroments, epic battles, detailed objects and textures, plenty of effects. It is not flawless, but it's great.

So basically any of us that don't find this game looking particularly impressive are automatically wrong just because?

I'm sorry but that trailer showed scenes with blurry faces and textures, low res textures, lots of aliasing, bad facial animations, bad animations and entire scenes without shadows on characters. Just saying it looks incredible over and over isn't going to make it true. :rolleyes:

I give this game a pass on a lot of this, not only because it's a launch game, because it is a first person shooter and it's main focus isn't going to be up close. Most combat and scenes in the game are going to be environmental, lighting, particles effects and distant combatants that you shoot at. I think it does a great job with lighting and particle effects but a lot of the game looks inconsistent.
 
I think it looks fine. I just hope it's gonna to be a story worth telling for a change. (the trailer certainly looks very promising in that regard)

And why do people always get so worked up over someone else's opinion. Not everyone is gonna like the looks of a game as much as you do - big fucking deal.

Heck, at least the fanboys over at gamefaqs aren't tryind to hide their true intentions behind techno babble.
 
they are still wery detailed and one of the best in the industry.

I disagree with that, it's a very rough result and almost every current game is better. Again, it's like they've been rushed.

May I please remind you GTAV, 250 mln dollar game, where facial animation was not so great,

I disagree again, GTA V has very good facial animation, especially when you consider the amount of content and the sheer detail that the game is pushing.

despite the fact that Rockstar has technology (L.A. Noir), time and resources for making it better.

LA Noir's "tech" is completely unsuitable for practically every video game. Even LA Noire itself was highly crippled because of it. It's basically a 3D recording and replaying system and not animation tech. There's a reason why noone has ever tried to replicate it or buy it and use it, after all.

KZ has great enviroments, epic battles, detailed objects and textures, plenty of effects. It is not flawless, but it's great.

I can however wholeheartedly agree with that.
 
I'm sorry but that trailer showed scenes with blurry faces and textures, low res textures, lots of aliasing, bad facial animations, bad animations and entire scenes without shadows on characters.

Between enthusiastic opinions in Ryse thread and numerous examples of devastating criticism in this thread, can I get actual examples?



I disagree with that, it's a very rough result and almost every current game is better. Again, it's like they've been rushed.

I am not arguing that they are perfect, some faces could use improvements and some fine tuning. But I still think that they are better than most and recently I played Resistance 3, GTA V, Last of US, GoW Ascension, Dark Souls, Assasins Creed 4, Rage, Metro (from the top of my head) . But I also understand that you expect certain attention to detail from developers of AAA first party title.
As for GTAV - I just finished it and I remember that facial animation was the only thing that I didn,t like about this game - delayed, out of sync and unrefined, which was especialy obvious when it comes to Trevor prolonged and emotional speeches.
 
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I think it looks fine. I just hope it's gonna to be a story worth telling for a change. (the trailer certainly looks very promising in that regard)

And why do people always get so worked up over someone else's opinion. Not everyone is gonna like the looks of a game as much as you do - big fucking deal.

Heck, at least the fanboys over at gamefaqs aren't tryind to hide their true intentions behind techno babble.

You're mad at members of Beyond 3D because they gave real and technical reasons for why they think something doesn't measure up in their opinion?

That's the reason I come to Beyond3D, in fact I like to read about the shortcomings of games I like because it shows areas where improvements can be made.

Sure I'm fanboyish in nature as I have a bias but this bias doesn't keep me from being able to have a objective opinion.

I think Killzone looks great, I just don't find it particularly impressive or something worth it for me to buy a PS4 to play. Like I said though, when enough games hit the system I might pick one up.

Between enthusiastic opinions in Ryse thread and numerous examples of devastating criticism in this thread, can I get actual examples?

You can go back in this thread and look at the images I posted and the other images posted and see the examples I pointed out, of course you could also watch the trailer itself in 1080p.

I personally watched it from 1 foot away from a 40" HDTV so I'm pretty sure I got a good look at the details from the trailer.

As far as RYSE if concerned you can bring this discussion to that thread.
 
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