Matrix Revolution!

Tagrineth said:
It's SUPPOSED to look fake. When was the last time YOU saw groups of people totally ignoring the laws of physics?

I don't think thats what he meant, its more the fact that that basically the CG was really bad. The 100 agent smiths scene was one of the worst, everyone just looked like they were made from plastic and rubber.


I pretty much agree with clashman's post although i want to add a few things.

on point 3. the action scenes were also bad because of the excessive and completely in the wrong places slowmo, its like they just had some kid sitting on the editing pc playing with the video editing options. and there was always the thing that basically neo is invunerable and even on the freeway sequence he was bound to be there to save them in the end. :|

they also tried to force all the philosophy bs far too much.

i almost fell asleep in the first 50mins of the film.
 
Clashman said:
10. Keanu Reaves was bad, even for him. His performance in the first Matrix should have earned him an Oscar if people think this is acceptable acting.

I disagree... halfway through the movie, I turned to the friend I saw it with and commented on his acting and she agreed that he was actually doing it on some level, which is unusual for Reeves.

9. And along with that, the acting, and more importantly the dialog, was utter crap throughout the entire movie. I don't have a problem with a story-driven movie, one that is there to explain the background of the story. The problem I have is when the dialog that is supposed to be driving the story is worse than puking up bile.

That's pure opinion... again my friend and I thought the dialogue was rather interesting.

8. The orgy/dance/love scene. Completely gratuitous, pointless, and lame. And it took up 10 minutes of the freakin' movie! Designed entirely to appeal to horny 12 year old boys just reaching the age when they decide they want to have sex but about 4 to 6 years before they'll be gettin' anything.

Agreed, it was kinda gratuitous.

7. Is everyone on Zion 25 years old, (except for that one guy)? I hated "The Ring" for the same damn reason. Stupid assed hollywood producers that feel that a movie isn't any good unless they show plenty of T&A. And for that you need nubile young men and women, (but especially women given the demographic they're trying to appeal to).

Correct, everyone IS 25 years old. This passage totally proves that you did NOT "get it" or pay attention at all. Do you remember the stuff that was said by the Architect about the One system?

6. Laurence Fishbourne flexing his muscles repeatedly while giving the worst inspirational speech I've ever heard in my entire life to the entire 25 year old population of Zion. I've seen W. give better speeches.

I thought Fishburne's speech was good... again, another instance where I turned to my friend, commented, and got an agreement.

5. I'm going to repeat myself here: Laurence Fishbourne flexing his muscles giving that awful, dreadful speech.

Cheap way to get a "top 10" out of 9 points.

4. Lotsa boring pseudointellectual bullshit. I don't mind pseudointellectual bullshit, just make it interesting. And no, I "got it" just fine. It just sucked.

No, you didn't get it. See my response to point 7.

3. Action sequences that were far too long, drawn out, and bland. Nothing in this movie after the first 5 minutes produced anything in me resembling excitement. The 100 Smiths scene was awful, probably the worst action scene in the whole movie. Just get it over with already. I'm still trying to decide if it's worse than the orgy scene or the "inspirational" scene, and I'll be awarding the title of "Worst Scene in an otherwise Terrible Movie" shortly after I manage to convince myself that I care enough about it to spend any more time discussing it.

I thought the Burly Brawl was the best fight scene in the whole movie, just above when Morpheus was using that straight sword.

2. Because I liked the first film, and it's depressing to watch a film you really enjoyed sabotaged in the second, much like Ep 1 was to the original Star Wars Trilogy.

Hey, at least Ep.1 was a lot better than the travesty that was Ep.2.

1. Because I work at a video store, and due to the "If you can't say anything nice" policy, everytime someone comes up and says "So did you see the Matrix Reloaded", I have to grit my teeth and force out a smile.

This one doesn't even have anything to do with the movie, now it's more like a top 8.
 
Tagrineth said:
I disagree... halfway through the movie, I turned to the friend I saw it with and commented on his acting and she agreed that he was actually doing it on some level, which is unusual for Reeves.

That's pure opinion... again my friend and I thought the dialogue was rather interesting.

Seriously, what kinds of movies do you watch that make this acceptable dialog?

Correct, everyone IS 25 years old. This passage totally proves that you did NOT "get it" or pay attention at all. Do you remember the stuff that was said by the Architect about the One system?

Well, there were a couple old people, (even if it the numbers were appallingly low), so that's either sloppy writing or sloppy typecasting. I don't think it was done in an effort to fit with what the "Architect" was rambling on about. Regardless, the larger point I was trying to make was not simply about age, but also about the type of people present. An abundance of supermodels and makeup within a city in survival mode? This is a problem with just about every Hollywood movie, but in this instance it was particularly visible and annoying.

I thought Fishburne's speech was good... again, another instance where I turned to my friend, commented, and got an agreement.

Yikes....

Cheap way to get a "top 10" out of 9 points.

It wasn't going to be a top 10 list until I got down to number 9 and realized it could be, (I was originally started numbering at 1, then reversed order once I got the 10). Nevertheless, if you want more I think what Bambers pointed out, namely:

1.
basically the CG was really bad. The 100 agent smiths scene was one of the worst, everyone just looked like they were made from plastic and rubber.

2.
the action scenes were also bad because of the excessive and completely in the wrong places slowmo, its like they just had some kid sitting on the editing pc playing with the video editing options.

3.
and there was always the thing that basically neo is invunerable and even on the freeway sequence he was bound to be there to save them in the end.

...were a pretty good start.

I also thought that the music in many places was a complete mismatch for the type of action occuring. My memory is desperatly trying to erase the damage done by this film, so I cannot describe with certainty what the misplaced music was, but I do remember that in the 100 smiths scene and I think the one with the Albino dreadlocked guys I said to myself "What moron here was placed in charge of syncing the music?"

I was also kind of upset that it took revenue away from a really good movie, (the already mentioned "X2"), and that for some incomprehendable reason droves of people are out there defending this pile of garbage against any possible criticism people may have. But hey, that's just me...

No, you didn't get it. See my response to point 7.

Nope, I'm pretty sure I did. See my response to your response. I just didn't care.

I thought the Burly Brawl was the best fight scene in the whole movie, just above when Morpheus was using that straight sword.

Once again, Yikes....

Hey, at least Ep.1 was a lot better than the travesty that was Ep.2.

Except that when Ep.2 hit, my expectations had sunk pretty low, and it didn't hit me as hard.

This one doesn't even have anything to do with the movie, now it's more like a top 8.

It's job specific. That doesn't mean it doesn't have anything to do with the movie. If it didn't suck, I would feel significantly better at my current place of work.
 
Tagrineth said:
Correct, everyone IS 25 years old. This passage totally proves that you did NOT "get it" or pay attention at all. Do you remember the stuff that was said by the Architect about the One system?

While I "got" most of the movie and appreciated the underlying philosophical conflicts the dialog attempted to illuminate to the audience, I didn't get the part about everyone being 25 years old. I got the impression that The One comes along every few generations, ~100 years, and that since the current Zion inhabitants don't realize there have been 5 Zion's before, they think they have been fighting the machines for only about 100 years, as Morhpeus says in his speech in the cave. So why exactly is everyone in Zion 25 years old? Also, not everyone is 25 - Locke and the council members, as well as Captain Soren and some of the other ship crews are older. Or is it b/c they don't take anyone out of the Matrix after a certain age (Neo being an exception), adding a bias for youth to the population of Zion?
 
Im usually an opponent of killing the main character or whomever is closest to him near the end of the movie, since I think it is mostly done out of antagonism towards the mainstream, but him saving Trinity was just a damn shame ... for one there will be crappy romance scenes to break up the action in part 3, and also him getting it both ways just reinforces his already overwhelming aura of omnipotence.
 
The giant orgy scene in the cave reminded my wife and I quite a bit of the spice orgy in DUNE (the book, that is).

I'd be seriously pissed about the ending if I had to wait a year to unravel it, but then I was seriously pissed about "Luke, I AM YOUR FATHER!" and waiting three years to unravel that.
 
Clashman said:
Seriously, what kinds of movies do you watch that make this acceptable dialog?

B/c you don't understand it doesn't mean it's nonsensical. The dialog of the Oracle, the Merovingian, and the Architect is some of the deepest, most consequential dialog ever put in a movie. It's amazing how deep the rabit hole goes, once you start reading about the philosophies in conflict in this movie - materialism, idealism, and existentialism, among others. In fact, the most obvious major philosophical conflict in the movie - causality vs. choice - is the same basic conflict played out in the Cold War b/t the Soviet Communists and the West. If you get curious at all, read through the website Marxists.org, especially the parts on Materialism, and see if you can find any parallels to the movie:

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/m/a.htm#materialism

The best thing about the philosophical aspect of Reloaded is that it treats philosophy as an applied science, which it is, instead of the purely theoretical science that so many people, especially Americans, believe it to be. It's just too bad that so many people blow it off as being a lame attempt at trying to sound cool b/c they have no prior background on the subject.
 
I'm not talking about the background philosophy, (although I will say I'm quite well versed in materialism, existentialism, etc. That's kinda what I study), when I say the dialog is crap. I'm referring, well, to the dialog, meaning the words, phrases, conversations, vocal conotations, etc, which are meant to drive the story forward. Here's an example:

NEO
"What the hell were you doing?"
TRINITY smiles slightly. Her madness has a purpose.
TRINITY
"Showing you, Neo."
NEO
"Showing me what? You nearly gave me a heart attack."
TRINITY
"I want you to know how much faith I have in you."
NEO
"Oh. And this requires acts of insanity?"
TRINITY smiles. She looks him up and down. She moves intimately close.
"So, you really are Superman."
NEO
"Only when I?m plugged in."

Vomit. Pure Vomit.

By the way, I found this mildly amusing.
http://ter.air0day.com/index.php?script=matrixreloaded
 
I'm agreeing mostly with Clashman.

The entire Matrix "experience" was completely ruined for me because someone told me it was a really deep movie and you really really really have to think and watch it multiple times to get all the facets of the story, etc. etc. yadda yadda. Ofcource I was stupid enough to believe him and I didn't leave my brain at the door. As someone who has read a lot of science fiction, Matrix is a good permise but falls flat on it's face once you try to dig a bit deeper (humans as batteries? Come on! And what about using orbital solar collectors as a power supply? And Zion? What is their power source? Love and happiness?). Good action flick though.

Unless they're going off in an interesting direction, the next movie isn't gonna salvage the series for me. I might buy the first movie, but so far the other two look like write-offs. IMO of course. :)

And sometimes "the machines" are ridiculously stupid.... If they want to wipe out Zion, why send a million of those bad octopus rejects and not 5-6 nukes in the megaton range? Simpler and probably a lot more cost-effective. They are under ground after all, ever heard of a cave-in?
Nuking a site from orbit is the only way of being sure... :D
 
Alright, I see your point. Some of it wasn't that good. But where did that part you quoted happen? I don't remember that at all...
 
Hmm...are people getting hung up on the battery shit and the inconsistensies of Zion?

I thought it was pretty obvious from the 2nd movie that Zion is just another layer...
 
we'll just have to wait and see until.... wednesday... :D
i mean, i'll wait a lot longer, since there is NO way i'm going to rush to see this movie when the theatres are full of irritating kids screaming around asking daddy: "what's that dad? and why are there squiddy-like thingys killing the guy from Speed?"...

rather go next month when the theatres are empty... :D
 
Im still betting the farm that the battery premise is a distraction from the real premise. As for zion second layer its been done (lawnmower man and others) and wachowsky bros said it wasnt matrix in a matrix...
 
Lawnmower man? From what I remember there was nothing particularly deep or difficult to understand about that film...

Wherein would the second layer lie?
 
to be honest i'm really looking forward to see what the W bros came up with to get out of a really embarrassing situation... that is to keep a 10-minutes-philosophical-based-story-diluted-with-action-scenes film interesting. first one, great, second one, painful. third one?

how r they gonna get out of the cheese covered layers of the matrix?

how r they gonna "do something that hasnt been done before"?

methinks it will be another 10-minutes-philosophical-based-story-diluted-with-action-scenes film... maybe 13 minutes of story counting the finale (which i expect will explain some things...)

some people complain about the complete uselessness of the dialogues in Reloaded.. i was complaining about the LACK of it. really, the script must have been 2 pages long.... ;) next time u watch Reloaded, try to actually notice the total length of the lines of dialogues put together...
 
Well Ive never seen lawnmower man but Ive read it has that 2 layers of reality built in to the story as so many speculate about the matrix... So I doubt that theme is repeating itself here... its been done off and on in sci fi throughout the years too...
 
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
Supposedly that's a deliberate misdirection.


i've heard that too but having the 'real world' as a matrix is the only way i can see that they can patch over the myriad of holes.

I've got a nagging feeling that theres a chance it will all end up really being some kind of dream of one person (neo) or him plugged into an arcade/pc game far in the future or some other similar supposedly philosophical bollocks meaning of life blah ending :/
 
fbg1 said:
Alright, I see your point. Some of it wasn't that good. But where did that part you quoted happen? I don't remember that at all...

Upon further review, it appears that what I quoted was not from the actual matrix script. I've been searching for the past hour or so trying to find the real one. 99% of them are bogus. I think I've just found it though, at http://www.auburn.edu/~phillds/matrix2.html

Persephone: A kiss.
Trinity: Excuse me?
Persephone: I want you to kiss me as if you were kissing her.
Neo: Why?
Persephone: You love her; she loves you; it's all over you both. A long time ago, I knew what that felt like. I want to remember it; I want to sample it. That's all, just a sample.

Smith: Thank you. But, as you well know appearances can be deceiving which brings me back to the reason why we're here. We're not here because we're free, we're here because we're not free. There's no escaping reason, no denying purpose because as we both know, without purpose we would not exist.
Smith 2: It is purpose that created us.
Smith 3: Purpose that connects us.
Smith 4: Purpose that pulls us.
Smith 5: That guides us.
Smith 6: That drives us.
Smith 7: It is purpose that defines.
Smith 8: Purpose that binds us.
Smith: We are here because of you, Mr. Anderson. We're here to take from you what you tried to take from us, purpose.

Neo: Go...Hiya fellas.
Agent Johnson: It's him.
Agent Thompson: The anomaly
Agent Jackson: Do we proceed?
Agent Thompson: Yes,
Agent Jackson: He is still
Agent Johnson: Only human.
Neo: Hmmm, upgrades.
 
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