*spin-off* Always on/connected... stuff

@DeF
I think we must make difference between "always online" and "always connected"
My PS3 is always connected bu I am not always online, I constantly receive updates in background automatically but I am not actually on-line, I am not signed-in: I am offline.
My PC is the same: I am always connected but I am not always online, I can work offline as much as I like.
For me is too early for both but always connected is would still be less problematic, it would leave us more free.

Intent for communication is an incredible resource so really if every user is connected and can use it then everyone can: receive/send news/info/updates, share, discuss, protest, etc...

P.S.
By the way IMO those that would benefit more form this situation are telecommunications companies.
 
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eastmen said:
Its not any different in my mind than past consoles. They all have a date in which the expire. An allways connected system might have an expiration date earlier than the past ones however unlike sony , MS seems to actually have a way forward with DD.
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The hardware might have a date in which they expire, the physical media does not. In other words, even if my hardware breaks, I can still get the hardware 2nd hand reasonably priced and play my purchased games on it - doesn't really matter if we're talking 5 years into the future or 20.

In fact, I could even unpack and boot up my Amiga 2000 I have somewhere in the basement and play a round of "the Great Giana Sisters" if I wanted to, now and today.

Any plans to change this kind of model is something I'm very critical about. I don't want to buy a licence for the right to play the game for a limited amount of time (which potentially, such an authenticate-system by being always-online might enable). The subscription model makes sense for certain kinds of services - it makes sense for online play (because you are technically dependant on a service that the company needs to keep running for you to play online) - and it also makes sense to have a subscription based model for anything Mobile phone related - or Internet service provider, Email etc.

With things that you buy that are technically able to play "offline" - or watch - it's definately not something I'd want. It just comes across too much as if they are ripping me off. I can see why a company like Microsoft or even Sony would want this, but it's definately not something I want as a consumer.

I like having the freedom to i.e. give away my old consoles once I don't use them anymore, knowing that they still work and can be used.
 
Davros said:
They do? I was not aware of this. I thought all the old consoles still work
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I think he was implying that every hardware has life expectancy and in given time, every hardware is bound to fail/break - which for the record, I don't think is comparable at all.
 
eastmen said:
Its not any different in my mind than past consoles. They all have a date in which the expire.
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How is it not different, in one case it's when every last piece of hardware is dead that you can't (in principle) play the game anymore. In reality that is more likely to be when there is no more power for your vacuum cleaner or your CE devices since there is a market for these games and devices..

As seen here: http://www.amazon.com/Hyperkin-Retr...s&ie=UTF8&qid=1365416193&sr=1-4&keywords=snes

The other case it's a kill switch that you can't do anything about. Dictated by nothing but money.
 
BRiT said:
People are being idiots and going off with their wildest paranoid fears with no solid basis in reality.
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Hey some of us are just expressing our issues with such a possibility :p I'm not entirely convinced of anything until it's confirmed.

I was more bothered by Adam Orth's attitude towards the whole thing. From everything I've read about him, he just seems like a douche.

bkilian said:
Here's my prediction: The PS4 OOBE will require you to log in to or create a PSN account. The PS4 will default to always-online, and you _may_ be able to disable some of those features, but it'll be opt out, and Sony will hide them as deep in the menu tree as it can.
I predict similar things for the nextbox, with the difference being in the set of features that can be disabled.
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As long as it's optional, I can live with it on either platform, I don't care how hidden those options are.
 
MS just sold their IPTV
http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/8/4196336/microsoft-mediaroom-iptv-sale-ericsson

Full speed ahead for the mediacenter Xbox720. I can imagine how ad agencys are jumping from joy (heck, I still do some freelance work for 'em and they dream about stuff like this). Real time info how people will react to ads, their gender, age, how many are watching... custom made ad content for each and every xbox account no matter if they watch tv or play games. I kinda feel sorry for the consumers and hopefully they are smart enough to rebel against this.
 
Real time info how people will react to ads, their gender, age, how many are watching... custom made ad content for each and every xbox account no matter if they watch tv or play games.
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As in current smartphones and even your PC (google)?

If you are afraid of ads and so, just don't connect your devices to internet.
 
(((interference))) said:
I don't know about that.

While I'm sure Durango will pass Kinect voice and skeletal data back to MS to improve the quality of the service etc, it seems that there will be quite extensive voice and skeletal recognition databases on the console itself for Kinect to rely on (part of the 3GB system reservation).

Sending voice data over the internet for processing like Siri would be too laggy for use in gameplay situations.
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Yeah, I, too, am kind of apprehensive whether it would be feasible under gameplay conditions. But it must be said that it shouldn't be slower than streaming games, where i/o from both the controller and frames must be delivered over the internet. Also, multimedia functions outside of gaming should be more forgiving in terms of response while some apps may be more computationally hungry because the voice recognition. In a game, I see voice recognition limited to a simple set of commands while web searching would require a more robust solution.

Also, always on always connected would make subscription more feasible by alleviating some of the pressure placed on subscription rates. If MS is able to kill functionality to Durango because you failed to honor your subscription, you will be more encouraged to maintain said subscription. Subscription rates would be cheaper because MS wouldn't have to deal with larger losses associated with subscription based fraud of CE products where functionality can't be affected.

There may be a reality where paying full price upfront buys you an "unlocked" durango where always on always connected is less restrictive. Working differently and more flexibly to serve as an attractive feature for users who pay the total cost up front.

Directed to the general conversation.

There is nothing inherent about always online/connected that requires MS to kill all Durango based consoles when it becomes no longer profitable to service the console. Its not like the always online/connected can not be shut off through a firmware upgrade and allow your total library to be downloaded to send you on your merry way.

A manufacturer using a "kill switch" simply because of EOL is bad news. It isn't likely to encourage customer adoption for your new generation of consoles, simply because you killed their old one. Furthermore, the leaks of MS documents exposed MS's desire to get rid of the concept of upgrading hardware and to provide gaming through streaming and cloud based service where the platform is hardware agnostic. Durango seems to designed with an excess of i/o bandwidth to accommodate a long life as a streaming based console.

I can understand people's concern. Value of any functionality is determined solely by that user, so dismissing their concerns because your and their values don't align serves no purpose. However, just because always connected/online is ripe for abuse doesn't mean any always connected/online product will automatically adopt such anti-consumer behavior.
 
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XpiderMX said:
As in current smartphones and even your PC (google)?

If you are afraid of ads and so, just don't connect your devices to internet.
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Google can't find out what I'm curretly watching. They can find out what I watch online, at least untill I clean my browser cache and/or my dynamic IP changes. Thus they get incomplite or inaccurate data and bomb me with ads that wouldn't work even if I wasn't aware of the manipulation.

In xbox720, MS will get much more accurate data. Kinect will tell how many people are watching, how they react (leave room, stand up, depending on accuracy - maybe even facial reactions and voice). As service is account based, they know your physical location, all your movie / TV / game data. They know your height and weight. They don't need to know your age, as it's not that important any more. They can move from age segment based marketing to way more detailed marketing. Average Joe don't stand a chance :cry:
 
-tkf- said:
Can i put a 28 year old CD in my CD player? I used Billie Jean as an example earlier, imagine music you buy just goes away. Or movies for that matter. Of course i got enjoyment while it lasted but i would be pretty pissed :)

I just find it hard to believe that there is a market for games that has a die date. Even if games are more like one night stands there is still plenty games that are worth playing years after their release date.
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But we're not talking about music here. We're talking about games.

How many of the Atari 2600 games that I played back in the late 70's are playable by me now? None of them since my Atari 2600 no longer works.

How about my NES games? Nope can't play any of those anymore either.

How about my PS1 games? Nope can't play any of those anymore as I don't have the PS1 anymore. Same goes for my PS2 games and my Xbox 1 games.

Am I crying over it? Nope, I had my fun and I've moved on.

The only platform that still allows me to play the same games I bought 20 years ago is the PC. And that requires some bit of work with DOS emulation, etc.

So, was it wasted money for all of those games that I spent thousands of dollars on since I can no longer play them? Nope.

I'm sure there are people that still break out their NES or Atari 2600 to play the games they bought, but when I look around me at the hundreds of people I know that game. Yeah, not a single one still has their NES, Atari 2600, SNES, Super Nintendo, PS1, Genesis, Saturn, etc. There's a few that still have a PS2.

Somehow I just don't see the vast majority of console gamers really caring if they can't play a game 10 years down the line. I'm sure in their mind they like to think they might. But the reality is that almost none of them ever will.

Contrast that with music. Where people will regularly listen to whatever their favorite group was back when they were in high school.

Regards,
SB
 
ArcticCircle said:
Google can't find out what I'm curretly watching.
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They can if you use GoogleTV. As can Apple if you use AppleTV. Both companies, and Sony as well are moving in the same direction as Microsoft. Although in the case of Google and Apple, they beat Microsoft there by a few years. I guess in this case, you can just say that Microsoft is just copying Google and Apple with the always on internet device. But they put a new twist on it by making their always on internet device a gaming console as well.

Regards,
SB
 
ArcticCircle said:
Google can't find out what I'm curretly watching. They can find out what I watch online, at least untill I clean my browser cache and/or my dynamic IP changes. Thus they get incomplite or inaccurate data and bomb me with ads that wouldn't work even if I wasn't aware of the manipulation.

In xbox720, MS will get much more accurate data. Kinect will tell how many people are watching, how they react (leave room, stand up, depending on accuracy - maybe even facial reactions and voice). As service is account based, they know your physical location, all your movie / TV / game data. They know your height and weight. They don't need to know your age, as it's not that important any more. They can move from age segment based marketing to way more detailed marketing. Average Joe don't stand a chance :cry:
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All of this must be detailed on the EULA (or Live contract), it is as simple as read it.
_______________________

From Edge:

The next Xbox exists, and it’s not the disaster the internet thinks it is – Microsoft just needs to show it to us to make all this go away.
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http://m.edge-online.com/features/t...t-needs-to-reveals-its-next-xbox-and-quickly/
 
We'll have to see how intrusive either consoles are next ten, as far as ads, privacy policy, location tracking, etc.

I don't buy that its a necessary evil. It's more for whatever new business models they think they should try.

Fine if there are ads, but you pay for the console, you pay for the connection and you pay for the games and you see ads?

Hmm ...
 
wco81 said:
We'll have to see how intrusive either consoles are next ten, as far as ads, privacy policy, location tracking, etc.

I don't buy that its a necessary evil. It's more for whatever new business models they think they should try.

Fine if there are ads, but you pay for the console, you pay for the connection and you pay for the games and you see ads?

Hmm ...
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Given how lossy HD consoles were last gen, I am surprised we don't have the "Sunlife" Xbox 360 and the "Blue Cross/Blue Shield" PS3 both with prominent advertising on boot screens and brand names, mottos and slogans prominently placed on the consoles' and controllers' housings.

Would you rather them up the retail prices on the games/accessories/consoles or gimp the consoles with lesser performance, less features and/or cheaper material?

I am just glad we don't have to subjected to a 60 second advertisement before the start of each game, uninterruptible commericals during gameplay and/or forced to skip 20 gametrailers to get to the title's "Start" screen.
 
AlphaWolf said:
Are you at all familiar with cable tv? How about movies?
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This isn't cable TV or movies.

It's apparently not even mobile devices, where if you pay for the app, you get rid of the ads.

I know they put in-game ads this generation, things like stadium signs in sports games. But those weren't too bad.

I guess we'll have to see how obtrusive they are. Ads at the edge of your dashboard? Interstitials that you can't dismiss at the beginning and during games (between levels perhaps)?
 
dobwal said:
Given how lossy HD consoles were last gen, I am surprised we don't have the "Sunlife" Xbox 360 and the "Blue Cross/Blue Shield" PS3 both with prominent advertising on boot screens and brand names, mottos and slogans prominently placed on the consoles' and controllers' housings.

Would you rather them up the retail prices on the games/accessories/consoles or gimp the consoles with lesser performance, less features and/or cheaper material?

I am just glad we don't have to subjected to a 60 second advertisement before the start of each game, uninterruptible commericals during gameplay and/or forced to skip 20 gametrailers to get to the title's "Start" screen.
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You think they're going to keep prices down because of ad income? More than likely, they see ads as a way to maximize revenues and profits. They're not going to price based on the anticipated ad money. They're going to price on what they think will sell vs. the competition and other forms of entertainment that the target market might buy instead.
 
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