Console Maker's OS

[Shifty Geezer]

Will they want to do some basic photo touchups or make a powerpoint presentation on their tv? Maybe.

I'm pretty sure if people wanted to do that, they'd already have PCs connected to the their TV. There's a spacial distance with the TV that makes it less comfortable for productivity than close monitors or even the more immediate touchscreens. And as I say, why do those functions have to be concurrent with a game? Why not make them a full application with access to the full 7 GBs (5GBs thanks to reserved RAM...)?

 

[Bigduo209]

I don't see anything wrong with an app-based ecosystem for consoles. At least you're guaranteed 8-10 years of OS updates for it. With phones you're not guaranteed any OS updates for even 2 years (especially if you don't have a flagship handset). Hardware manufacturers ship different phones dangerously varied levels of support, but a handful consoles at least has higher standards.

The same way game developers have a unified platform to make games for, app developers have the same advantage as well.

Leftover RAM bothers the consumer for what? Developers are the only ones who should have any concerns, and if it's not enough they'll be sure to ask Sony to free some up. If some of that is used for future OS functions, then so be it. It's not like Sony can't optimize and improve the OS memory footprint for the RAM already in use, and do it while adding more functionality at the same time. Either way that's a total 8GB of GDDR5 RAM that exists to serve whatever future purpose possible, not just 4 gigs or 8 gigs of DDR3 either has to worry about using.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I'm pretty sure if people wanted to do that, they'd already have PCs connected to the their TV. There's a spacial distance with the TV that makes it less comfortable for productivity than close monitors or even the more immediate touchscreens. And as I say, why do those functions have to be concurrent with a game? Why not make them a full application with access to the full 7 GBs (5GBs thanks to reserved RAM...)?

All I can answer is for myself. I'd be happy if my console had more functional use than just gaming. I don't know what kind of apps we'll see, but I'm looking forward to see what comes out. Maybe all of it will suck. I don't know. Being able to switch back and forth between an app and a game without losing progress in either one is a great idea. Keeping things in memory is nice. I love that I start my X1 and Titanfall is still loaded, and I can jump between that and Netflix or Xbox Video and not have to sit through any significant loading. Hooking my laptop up to my tv is a pain in the ass. I don't have desktop pc anymore. I don't really want one. If my console could do a little more for me, I'd be more happy with that than a little bit of extra power for games. The games are good enough. Maybe some of the bigger apps will actually run on the "game" side of the system. Maybe I'm wrong, and there is no one else out there like me that has any interest in this. Even if I knew that there were, there's no way I could prove it to you.

 

[Heinrich4]

I'm with Shifty... I´m think game console must be games console... and probably not able to compete with more open and flexible devices such as PCs and portable devices wich receiving hardware refresh every year or two ... it's a losing battle ... I think if gamers openly known that their consoles are today about 40%( 3+ GB its a waste !!! PS360 using 1/100 less!) of the memory resources, so processing costs for applications not focusing on games, many would think more than once in acquiring xbone/ps4 .... I'm one of those consumers who think the best app is the game with the maximum performance possible.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm with Shifty... I´m think game console must be games console... and probably not able to compete with more open and flexible devices such as PCs and portable devices wich receiving hardware refresh every year or two.

To be clear, I'm not saying no to apps and non-gaming functionality. I'm just saying that the amount of RAM that'd be useful for that for most users should be in the 1 GB range, not the 3 GB range. On a scale of gaming<->utility, the console companies have set their scale very much more over to utility than I think is necessary or worth it.

 

[Heinrich4]

To be clear, I'm not saying no to apps and non-gaming functionality. I'm just saying that the amount of RAM that'd be useful for that for most users should be in the 1 GB range, not the 3 GB range. On a scale of gaming<->utility, the console companies have set their scale very much more over to utility than I think is necessary or worth it.

It is fair ,1 GB also create up to be more acceptable within a reasonably to be expected of a game console but imagine this future scenario*: You're playing opem world (or not) like GTA, Infamous. Watch Dogs etc and in game get a virtual terminal or pc running or mobile to send messages, or interact an advertising board or some kind of interaction that appear an application or even to consuming a product within this "virtual universe" clearly aiming for consumption services.( even for helping to sponsor and fund the game ... ) ,so it would perhaps be interesting to some gamers not for me.

I think that if one day we get that point "matrix like" (not so much I know I'm exaggerating a lot ..maybe...) interaction when whe get as game consumer this console should be have a menu option to open the first logo settings for accepts this apps or not .

What I saying with this exercise in "futurology" that Sony and Microsoft may be exerting with such memory to reserve for apps should always be optional....even now.

* Only this way we can imagine so excessive use of memory reserved for non game aplication .( despite 15 min save movie game,sound/video edit,google,facebook etc)

 

[London Geezer]

Didn't get any of that.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

It is fair ,1 GB also create up to be more acceptable within a reasonably to be expected of a game console but imagine this future scenario*: You're playing opem world (or not) like GTA, Infamous. Watch Dogs etc and in game get a virtual terminal or pc running or mobile to send messages, or interact an advertising board or some kind of interaction that appear an application or even to consuming a product within this "virtual universe" clearly aiming for consumption services.( even for helping to sponsor and fund the game ... ) ,so it would perhaps be interesting to some gamers not for me.

Interesting idea, but I'd imagine they could do these types of game specific applications within the confines of the newly allocated memory if it were increased.

 

[MrSpiggott]

The more I read of this thread, the more plausible Globalisateur's theory of memory being reserved for development tools seems to be.

The idea requires no special pleading to account for the apparently wasteful reserve. We know development machines are still 8GB and there have be some kind of debugging tools resident in memory, along with a sensible reserve for future use. Occam's razor an all that.

Maybe a kind developer could cough once for yes and twice for no.

 

[Davros]

Not sure, one of the points I was trying to make in another thread (before Brit turned up with his big stompy boots) was that you dont need a dev kit or a xb1 just a pc and a copy of visual studio

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Not sure, one of the points I was trying to make in another thread (before Brit turned up with his big stompy boots) was that you dont need a dev kit or a xb1 just a pc and a copy of visual studio

I'm fairly sure you need an Xbox One to run code on, i.e. there is no Xbox One emulator built into their SDK. So while you may technically be able to write and compile code with just a PC, you have nothing to run it on for testing.

 

[dobwal]

I imagine the 3GB number is there because they figure it's easy to reserve it now and give back later, where the reverse you're basically screwed. I also have no idea what people will and will not want to do with their tv. For a lot of people it's probably the biggest and best screen in their home. Will they want to do some basic photo touchups or make a powerpoint presentation on their tv? Maybe. If I had all the answers I'd probably be a millionaire. Adding support for bluetooth mice for apps would probably be a good idea. I know bluetooth keyboards already work.

Naw, I want a EA "In Your Face" app so I can use Kinect to record my well prepared and well thought out custom animations for when I score in Madden, NHL and other sport titles.

Or an Elder Scrolls avatar app thats forward compatible, so I don't have to spend an hour figuring who I want to be when I could be exploring Tamriel.

How about a CGI like Youtube app that makes use of the console camera for motion capture. Make your own little story/clips using 3D characters.

And I want to migrate through a bunch of heavily used apps like I use browser tabs versus spending time waiting for them to individually load.

How about map apps? Instead pressing pause and given a simple 2D representation that just a tad bit more informative than the hud map. How about a work around where the app provides a full 3D model that would make Google envious? In futuristic games like Watch Dogs or Destiny this makes perfect sense. You could also use it to learn multiplayer maps without having to do so in the midst of a match. In SP you could plan your routes more carefully and strategically. Since it running in the background there is no need to load making for a more seamless experience. All without devs providing resources reserved for the Game OS.

I don't need mobile or PC apps on my console thats what my PC and mobile device is for, what we need is apps that are relevant to the living room, TV and games.

If you want vibrant console app ecosystem with multitudes of apps providing for a whole host of functionality that used by the vast majority of the userbase, it can't take a backseat to the primary function of the console. You can't treat apps like a red headed step child and think the ecosystem will grow. The smartphone and PC apps are given 1st class citizenship on the platforms they service. It should be no different for consoles.

 

[Heinrich4]

Forgive me if I'm wrong ... there's a possibility to say that instead of having a dedicated/customised hardware SDK to explore the maximum capacity of a each platform, there are tools already installed natively in a consumer game console to run games and apps coming from "SDK pcs" ?


If so ..Just opinion here...To make life easier for developers the burden of requiring dedicated/customised hardware and software (SDK) for a specific game platform now lies in the use hardware resources of consumer game console (like part of "SDK" inside in 3GB RAM, 2 core CPU,GPU cycles assisting some kind of compilation whatever etc.)?


( yes I know it exist software/API to code to metal etc is just clarify some questions ),

 

[AzBat]

I don't need mobile or PC apps on my console thats what my PC and mobile device is for, what we need is apps that are relevant to the living room, TV and games.

Check out the apps that came out on the Xbox 360 Indie Games service(M2AF, Gamescore Tracker, Bible Navigator, Console Info, Plasma TV Breakin). They were somewhat limited due to no access to the Internet or Kinect, but there were a few that were interesting. Would have been a lot more useful on XB1 when snapped with a game or Live TV.

Tommy McClain

 

[Davros]

So while you may technically be able to write and compile code with just a PC, you have nothing to run it on for testing.

In a previous thread someone made the point that the only way to get a program on the xb1 was via the xbox store, If that is the case you'd never be able to test your program until after it went on sale.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You do realise iPad developers can develop on Pc and test on HW, but can only distribute via iTunes, right? You'll be able to upload debug code to a local machine, probably via some internet check or something. There won't be a way to copy programs off USB drive or downloaded from some arbitrary internet address and get them onto the XB1 though (not legitimately, anyway).

 

[upnorthsox]

You do realise iPad developers can develop on Pc and test on HW, but can only distribute via iTunes, right? You'll be able to upload debug code to a local machine, probably via some internet check or something. There won't be a way to copy programs off USB drive or downloaded from some arbitrary internet address and get them onto the XB1 though (not legitimately, anyway).

Not true, we currently use Afaria for our ipad app deployment. It sucks but it's not itunes store. It does require an itunes account for setup however.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

okay, but looking that up, it's not a general app distribution scheme but an enterprise level app management system. The point being you don't just load software onto an iPad the same as you do on a PC. That's the same for consoles. You can't just get a console program and copy onto your HDD and run it.

 

[pMax]

In a previous thread someone made the point that the only way to get a program on the xb1 was via the xbox store, If that is the case you'd never be able to test your program until after it went on sale.

I dont really understand where all of this is going or what it means.
Console makers makes devkit for this purpose. You develop on your machine, and use the networked console devkit to run&debug.
WTF is all this discussion on stores and PC development??

 

[Davros]

Ms released some sort of update to visual studio you write your app and it runs on almost any system with a ms o/s even the xb1 so now you dont need to buy an expensive devkit and sign all kinds of nda's ect