Gabe Newell: Valve will release its own console-like PC

[Thorburn]

Could you tell how it handles video drivers for games? Like does it keep multiple drivers installed so that a game can pick and choose which one to run with, thus ensuring 100% compatibility?

I don't know to be honest, I'd imagine it keeps you updated via Steam (or will - I tried the "Check for Video Driver Updates..." button and it told me "Steam is unable to perform video driver detection on your system.").

Still early days for it at the moment, but encouraging initial signs.

 

[tuna]

Because for whatever reason the newest driver is not always the best one to use for every game.

It should be. Also, I don't think valve wants you to reboot the machine every time you change game.

 

[joker454]

How would this give you more compatibility?

Because if a game is tested with driver 1.0, then later when driver 2.0 comes out there is no way to be 100% sure that the game will work perfectly on it. New drivers can break things alas. The only way to be 100% sure that everything will work is to let the game load the drivers it was tested with.

It should be. Also, I don't think valve wants you to reboot the machine every time you change game.

"Should be" isn't good enough, hence why many stick to consoles for gaming which mate the drivers to the games keeping all q/a valid. Even on Windows you don't have to reboot to change video drivers but they don't support doing that on the fly for games. I know little to nothing about linux but maybe it supports that sort of thing.

I don't know to be honest, I'd imagine it keeps you updated via Steam (or will - I tried the "Check for Video Driver Updates..." button and it told me "Steam is unable to perform video driver detection on your system.").

Still early days for it at the moment, but encouraging initial signs.

Hmm ok, sounds like they may just stick to the pc model and hope games remain compatible after multiple driver revisions. Means it won't be as reliable as a console, unless they force people to do rebuilds like phone's do where newer os revisions sometimes break compatibility and people have to recompile and resubmit their apps.

 

[Thorburn]

"Should be" isn't good enough, hence why many stick to consoles for gaming which mate the drivers to the games keeping all q/a valid. Even on Windows you don't have to reboot to change video drivers but they don't support doing that on the fly for games. I know little to nothing about linux but maybe it supports that sort of thing.

Consoles receive driver updates in system updates....

 

[joker454]

Consoles receive driver updates in system updates....

That's not quite the same as how it is on pc. There is much sdk/driver functionality that is baked into the game itself and effectively mated to it, that's how they ensure games work 100% perfectly for the life of the console no matter how many console functionality updates they do.

 

[tuna]

Because if a game is tested with driver 1.0, then later when driver 2.0 comes out there is no way to be 100% sure that the game will work perfectly on it. New drivers can break things alas. The only way to be 100% sure that everything will work is to let the game load the drivers it was tested with.

So you want devs to test with Linux driver 3.11, 3.12, 3.13 etc and whatever userspace (X/Wayland) drivers exists? Wouldn't that dev time be better spent actually fixing the drivers (which you actually can do most of the time on a Linux based system)?

 

[tuna]

"Should be" isn't good enough, hence why many stick to consoles for gaming which mate the drivers to the games keeping all q/a valid. Even on Windows you don't have to reboot to change video drivers but they don't support doing that on the fly for games. I know little to nothing about linux but maybe it supports that sort of thing.

If you change the Linux portion of the driver you will have to reboot (unless Valve wants to go kexec on us). If you just change the user space portion of the driver you will most likely have to restart your graphical interface (X/Wayland). That could be pretty fast.

 

[joker454]

So you want devs to test with Linux driver 3.11, 3.12, 3.13 etc and whatever userspace (X/Wayland) drivers exists? Wouldn't that dev time be better spent actually fixing the drivers (which you actually can do most of the time on a Linux based system)?

I want to know how they will resolve compatibility issues better than a Windows pc currently does. If they can lock a driver set to a game then that would work best as that would be the most console style way to do it. If they don't and instead basically do what Windows currently does where you just hope new drivers don't break past games, well then I don't understand how that would resolve things better than Windows currently does. As far as I know Steambox doesn't have a certification process correct? If that's the case then it's all in the hands of NVidia and Amd to not break games with new drivers. I'm reasonably comfortable with NVidia, but Amd's drivers are legendary in their horridness.

 

[tuna]

Valve does not have to ship drivers that break stuff. And I think you are overestimating the amount of problems drivers cause on Windows.

 

[joker454]

Valve does not have to ship drivers that break stuff. And I think you are overestimating the amount of problems drivers cause on Windows.

I'll let you discuss drivers issues and games with John Carmack.

 

[tuna]

I'll let you discuss drivers issues and games with John Carmack.

Sure, just have him PM me

But his problems was with new and untested functionality, not stuff that broke with driver updates.

 

[Shortbread]

Steam Machine Gets The Teardown

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Steam+Machine+Teardown/20473

 

[zed]

PS/2 keyboard/mouse port

-how very 2013

 

[pjbliverpool]

Its a pretty awesome case but I'd be interested to know exactly what expansion slots are in there. In particular whether there's space for an optical drive in a modified version. If so you could make an incredible full fledged PC in a console form factor. Chuck in a 4960X, ASUS DirectCU II 290X, 32GB of DDR3 2133 and a Samsung EVO 1TB SDD and your looking at one insanely powerful, silent (and expensive) console.

You can even boot straight into Steam big picture mode in Windows for that complete console experience (without the disadvantages of using Steam OS).

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Are there still people left that use optical drives? I haven"t had one in my pc for over 6 years now and never missed it. Especially if your going to run big picture mode or steamos a optical drive is rather pointless.There is an expansion slot for a hdd though.

Not sure about it being more silent than a normal pc. That steambox uses stock parts, no custom cooling or anything so I don't see why it would be more silent compared to putting the same parts in a normal case. It'll probably be louder because in a normal case you can use much bigger heatsinks and fans.

 

[Jwm]

Are there still people left that use optical drives? I haven"t had one in my pc for over 6 years now and never missed it. Especially if your going to run big picture mode or steamos a optical drive is rather pointless.There is an expansion slot for a hdd though.

Not sure about it being more silent than a normal pc. That steambox uses stock parts, no custom cooling or anything so I don't see why it would be more silent compared to putting the same parts in a normal case. It'll probably be louder because in a normal case you can use much bigger heatsinks and fans.

I have a portable in the closet for when I need it, but I got rid of my internal optical drives many years ago. They were all IDE anyway, to give you an idea of how many years ago.

The last game I actually installed via DVD was Spore, everything since then I think has mostly been Steam related. I guess Lord of the Rings Online maybe, but now it is on Steam and does an MMO that needs massive updates anyway count as an install?

 

[joker454]

Some people might want one to play bluray movies I guess, but for pc gaming optical drives have been largely useless for some time now.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Its a pretty awesome case but I'd be interested to know exactly what expansion slots are in there. In particular whether there's space for an optical drive in a modified version. If so you could make an incredible full fledged PC in a console form factor. Chuck in a 4960X, ASUS DirectCU II 290X, 32GB of DDR3 2133 and a Samsung EVO 1TB SDD and your looking at one insanely powerful, silent (and expensive) console.

Yeah it's a lovely looking case and setup. However it's an ITX-case and there are no LGA2011 ITX-motherboards and the airflow design is most likely more suited to exhausting blower type fan

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Some people might want one to play bluray movies I guess, but for pc gaming optical drives have been largely useless for some time now.

Yes. I borrowed a friend's USB drive to install my PC. My old internal drive I intended to swap over was IDE. However, I'd like a DVD writer for every once in a while. So I think the way forwards is a USB drive used when needed that can be shared between devices. For a games machine it isn't really needed. That said, I know plenty of people who use the games console as a DVD/BluRay player. The Steambox wouldn't be a good replacement for an XB or PS. It's an odd, niche product IMO, not really vying to displace MS or Sony, though that niche is perhaps ever growing (internet future with no hard copies).

 

[pjbliverpool]

There are a few reasons I wouldn't want to give up an optical drive for a media orientated PC. I understand why people think they can do without it but a few examples for me would be:
-My catalogue of older games that I may feel like revisiting - all on DVD.
-Ability to watch DVD's and Blu-Rays
-General file sharing. We may all be on the cutting edge of technology but lots of people still use writable DVD's to store media and I'd hate for my ultra high end bleeding edge PC to be unable to play the brother in laws latest home video from afgan (on tour) or my dads home videos of local bands that he strangely likes to make.
- Some older games (that I don't already own) aren't available through DD. For example I recently purchased Flight Simulator X which I'd looked on Steam for but couldn't find.
- Its often cheaper to buy games on physical media through say Amazon than it is to buy through DD.