Formula 1 - 2013 Season

[jimbo75]

F1 is supposed to be about pushing the limits, not saving components.

This race was poor because most of the drivers weren't racing each other - they were doing their own thing designed around getting the most out of the tyres. It's ALL about the tyres and that's the wrong way to be racing.

 

[UniversalTruth]

Argh!

They CAN PUSH as much as they like, NO ONE STOPS them, the only requirement is to go to the pits more often

 

[jimbo75]

You do realise that pushing on these tyres makes them last about 4-5 laps? Did you see the state of Massa's hard tyre after only a few laps of trying to catch Raikkonen? He caught about a second and a half a lap then after the tyres went off he lost double that for each lap afterwards. Alonso on the other hand just drove alone nice and comfortably at the front and his were in almost perfect condition at the end even though he'd done 3 laps more on them!

They are nowhere near good enough to race on, they are only good for being managed and that is exactly what the teams are doing. It's ALL about the tyres.

 

[UniversalTruth]

It is all about the cars' qualities not to destroy the tyres as fast as possible. Everything else is nonsense

 

[jimbo75]

Yes but the problem is, "not destroying the tyres as fast as possible" means most of the teams and drivers have to drive slowly instead of racing. They have to give up positions instead of fighting for them.

If they aren't racing what is the point?

Spain is particularly bad and I don't think we'll see this bad again (hopefully), but that yesterday was nowhere near what I'd call a race.

 

[UniversalTruth]

The point is that those teams have to work harder to fix their cars. Why didn't Fernando complain about the tyres?

Only that whining sissy vettel is crying like a baby and blaming the tyres? The same as you. What do you want- tyres which will help him to dominate and win every race?

 

[jimbo75]

Fernando isn't going to complain about the tyres because the Ferrari is good on tyres. If it wasn't he would be. Ditto Raikkonen.

I want to see the fastest driver and car package win, not have the title handed to Alonso by default because Vettel can't drive his car to anywhere near it's maximum due to what is basically a false (that's the important part) limitation on his car.

The point of these tyres isn't supposed to be about stopping Red Bull domination (although it's been turned into that) - it was supposed to encourage close racing. We don't have close racing, it's a tyre-managing procession till the end for most teams now.

 

[jimbo75]

Gary Anderson on the title, Merc's bizarre 3-stop strategy and tyres - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22505695

 

[Wynix]

The point is that those teams have to work harder to fix their cars. Why didn't Fernando complain about the tyres?

Only that whining sissy vettel is crying like a baby and blaming the tyres? The same as you. What do you want- tyres which will help him to dominate and win every race?

No, this is incorrect, i also view the tyres as terrible; i would rather the focus be on the engines and aerodynamics than on the shitty tyres.

I don't like vettel, i want him to lose then go to another team and never win again.

The tires are shit and need to be improved, that's all.

 

[Kaotik]

I'll copy/paste myself from another forum:


Would people define "flat out racing"? Would that be where we were few seasons ago when you can be 2 secs faster than the driver ahead of you but overtaking is almost impossible despite the speed difference?

If you "fix" the tires, people will just start complaining about something else, there won't be end to it.

The tires are the same for all, teams and drivers just have to make their compromises on how much their car can eat tires in favour of single lap speed.
You don't have to nurture the tires if you're fast enough and pit more often, but you probably won't be that fast that it would be possible.

Oh, just as a sidenote, I think Kimi said in an interview quite recently that during his time in F1, it has never been possible to "push 110% whole race", no matter if it's fuel, tires or something else that needs to be looked after, there's always something.

 

[Colourless]

In this race it was impossible to go flat out. If you tried your tires would go of extremely quickly. If 4 stops was the norm in this 'take it easy' race then you'd be thinking you'd need like 2 more stops if you were going to push it... oh wait, they only have 6 sets of tyres.... if they wanted to do 6 stops (totally absurd) they'd have needed 7 sets, 1 more than allowed.

It should be 2 stops trying to preserve tyres, or 3 stops pushing more. At the moment it doesn't matter how many stops you do because if you push you lose significantly more time when the tyres go off than you could have possibly gain by going fast.

 

[Davros]

How about swapping the prime for a more durable tire one that would last a whole race distance ?

 

[Wynix]

Well i just looked at the 2014 changes...

V6 turbo with much less HP?
Less aerodynamics?
Less fuel on board(probably more stops)?

Im out after this year, tires don't even bother me anymore.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Fernando isn't going to complain about the tyres because the Ferrari is good on tyres. If it wasn't he would be. Ditto Raikkonen.

I want to see the fastest driver and car package win, not have the title handed to Alonso by default because Vettel can't drive his car to anywhere near it's maximum due to what is basically a false (that's the important part) limitation on his car.

The point of these tyres isn't supposed to be about stopping Red Bull domination (although it's been turned into that) - it was supposed to encourage close racing. We don't have close racing, it's a tyre-managing procession till the end for most teams now.

So you want to go back to the times where qualifying basically ended up being the running order at the end of the race. Great.

The reason we don't have close racing is because nobody is doing anything about aerodynamics. Thats the reason why we don't have close racing.

What they should be doing is introduce rules that limit aero development so much that teams can only be within lets say 10 to 15% of a FIA reference design which will be aimed at enabling close racing. Then they need to open up engine and kers development limiting only fuel usage and maximum extra power kers can deliver. Than use some decent tires but still "bad" enough that you need to make 2 to 3 stops.

I agree that right now the tires are a bit too weak and have a bit too much of a influence but its still better than a couple of years back with the undestructable tires.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Well i just looked at the 2014 changes...

V6 turbo with much less HP?
Less aerodynamics?
Less fuel on board(probably more stops)?

Im out after this year, tires don't even bother me anymore.

Power will be around 750hp so thats the same as today. The days of 1000+ hp engines have been gone for years.

Less aerodynamics? Lets hope so. Aerodynamics is one of the things that is ruining the racing.

Yes they will have less fuel on board. I believe the V6 engines had to be something like 20 or 30% more fuel efficient. I don't see why this would be a bad thing. Refueling is still not allowed so if any less fuel will mean less weight which means less stress on the tires. Though with the turbo's it said that torque will be a lot higher as well which will have an effect on tire wear during acceleration as well.

 

[Bludd]

Gary Anderson on the title, Merc's bizarre 3-stop strategy and tyres - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22505695

A lot of wisdom there.

I agree with him, 4 stops are too many but 1-2 stops is even worse.

 

[UniversalTruth]

No, this is incorrect, i also view the tyres as terrible; i would rather the focus be on the engines and aerodynamics than on the shitty tyres.

I don't like vettel, i want him to lose then go to another team and never win again.

The tires are shit and need to be improved, that's all.

Your understandings are totally wrong. Those tyres are made in the way Pirelli are asked by the F1 Management and the teams.

There is nothing wrong with the tyres, people's understandings are terrible

I like the tyres because they indroduce an element of surprise and interest

How about swapping the prime for a more durable tire one that would last a whole race distance ?

Yeah, and that would mean no pitstops during the race whatsoever. Very smart idea

 

[Kaotik]

In this race it was impossible to go flat out. If you tried your tires would go of extremely quickly. If 4 stops was the norm in this 'take it easy' race then you'd be thinking you'd need like 2 more stops if you were going to push it... oh wait, they only have 6 sets of tyres.... if they wanted to do 6 stops (totally absurd) they'd have needed 7 sets, 1 more than allowed.

It should be 2 stops trying to preserve tyres, or 3 stops pushing more. At the moment it doesn't matter how many stops you do because if you push you lose significantly more time when the tyres go off than you could have possibly gain by going fast.

If no-one drove flat out at all, why were the lap times if anything faster than last year or the year before?

 

[cjo]

If no-one drove flat out at all, why were the lap times if anything faster than last year or the year before?

Fastest lap 2013: 1:26.217
Fastest lap 2012: 1:26.250
Fastest lap 2011: 1:26.727

Marginally faster lap this year than last or the year before. However:

Total Race time 2013: 1:39:16.596
Total Race time 2012: 1:39:09.145
Total Race time 2011: 1:39:03.301

Yesterdays race was the slowest since 1996, which had torrential rain.

 

[UniversalTruth]

I like longer races. The longer the races, the higher the excitement. Much better like this than to have fast races with duration of 1 hour and 20 minutes...

Formula 1 - Pirelli: We can bring back processions if teams, fans want

"It is a bit bizarre - unless you all want us to give tyres to Red Bull to help them win the championship, which appears to be the case.
"I think it is pretty clear. There is one team who will benefit from a change and that is them."

Either people are super duper stupid which I hate from every single cell of my body, or the beast, aka RB F1 Team has washed their brains