Anyone still think Wii U will "win" "next gen"?

Will Wii U be the best selling console over MS and Sony's offerings?


  • Total voters
    152
  • Poll closed .
I'll reverse your statement and ask - is it reasonable to assume that there is NO correlation or commonality in market forces?

Honestly, do you think the successor to the Xbox is going to sell 3x worse than its predecessor? I mean, you can use any metric and magical thinking to get the data to say what you want it to say but I'll call you out on conformation bias next. People with a conformation bias have already written off "next-next gen" and like to point to the WiiU as proof of it. I'm fairly certain the next Xbox and Playstation won't be peddling along at less than 100k month only after 3 months on the marketplace. When the next COD or Madden hits shelves and we see the new sexy graphics, with all these new sexy gameplay features, those people aren't going to want to be playing it on their 360. Content and services will drive people to the new platforms, that's how its always worked. Nintendo had neither to drive their platform which is why it's a failure.
 
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I think for the Wii U, there were many factors affecting its low sales including its name, lack of games, bad services, casuals not interested, etc. But ultimately I think people understood the value proposition of the Wii U was not good. It offered a tablet, which turns out to not be the game changer motion controls were, but not much else. It's a Nintendo version of 360/PS3 which have much higher library of games that are cheaper. As they say, fool me once, shame on you...

I don't know if Nintendo plans to ever release a home console again, but if they do, I hope they learn that silicon tech is important. For all the hate that Apple gets, being called an iSheep machine for the clueless, they do make some of the fastest ARM processors around and use top of the line cameras and screens. Nintendo can take that cue from Apple.
 
Honestly, do you think the successor to the Xbox is going to sell 3x worse than its predecessor? I mean, you can use any metric and magical thinking to get the data to say what you want it to say but I'll call you out on conformation bias next. People with a conformation bias have already written off "next-next gen" and like to point to the WiiU as proof of it. I'm fairly certain the next Xbox and Playstation won't be peddling along at less than 100k month only after 3 months on the marketplace. When the next COD or Madden hits shelves and we see the new sexy graphics, with all these new sexy gameplay features, those people aren't going to want to be playing it on their 360. Content and services will drive people to the new platforms, that's how its always worked. Nintendo had neither to drive their platform which is why it's a failure.

Confirmation bias goes both ways. Thinking objectively about the whole thing, its hard to be optimistic about the future of dedicated console gaming.

Let's start with Microsoft. Although Microsoft is in competition with Sony in the console business, you have to remember that this is Microsoft. They make most of their money with Windows and Office licenses. Xbox is a very successful brand in the West but MS has lost billions to get there. MS is in the business to make money, not lose a lot of money and continue to pursue a market with low profitability for them. They obviously did this for a reason. According to that one guy, it was to 'kill' Sony. Whether or not that's true, the xbox 'experiment' had a lot to do with the taking over the living room. Something that Apple is also interested in obviously but doesn't really know how to proceed. Overall though, Apple is MS's main competitor. No I'm not saying Apple TV is in competition with consoles. Think about the whole picture.

The MS and Sony loss leader strategy lost them a ton of money and it doesn't look like either are doing it again (Sony can't afford to). They raised the bar and made it very expensive to compete which definitely effected Nintendo. I really think this started with PS2 being a loss leader. A new sexy console that played new sexy games and dvds for the price of a dvd player (pretty much anyways.. at the time of course) and it didn't break the bank (for consumers). The Wii didn't create the casual market like some people think, it expanded it to people like grandparents. There were casual games for the PS2 and many casual gamers. Not just core gamers.

Xbox brought console games closer to PC games than ever before, converting some PC gamers and introducing those experiences to others. It only sold 24+ million consoles compared to PS2's 150+ million. It had a higher attach rate than PS2 probably because core gamers buy more games. I doubt grandma ever played anything beyond Wii Sports on their Wii, in comparison.

360 and PS3 sales combined in the past 7 years sold about as much as the PS2 alone did in its first 7 years. How many of that is casual? Probably a lot going off kinect sales. Why mention this? Because in 2006, an overclocked gamecube was good enough for casual gamers. My laptop has overall better hardware than the rumored Durango/Orbis specs; the generation gap will be much smaller than the last one. I have no doubt that core gamers will buy the new hardware. But that's a lot smaller of a demographic than you probably think. I do think it's very possible the next xbox could sell 3x less than the 360. The PS3 didn't repeat the success of the PS2 with sales under half of PS2's lifetime total.

Publishers like EA will probably gimp their current gen ports to get you to buy new hardware and buy their games made for new hardware, but I only see a small demographic taking the plunge. PS3/360 might be ancient, but consumers don't really care about specs. They might care about graphics and games, but they've reached the point of diminishing returns. You and I might not think so, but the masses will. They don't make these consoles for just you and I, they make them to make money. Something that they lost a lot of to make a little bit for themselves with the current gen - not a good business model.

The tablets/smartphones have had an effect on consumer trends which will effect their console buying decisions. So will the poor economy, especially if these consoles are over $500. I think MS to some extent realizes all this which is why kinect 2.0 will come with it and they're pushing it as an entertainment console. They'll still cater to core gamers but the core gamers confirmation bias won't comprehend they are an afterthought. Xbox is a brand now and the next xbox console is more or less a PC. I have a feeling the brand will extend to the PC in addition to TVs and whatever they're talking about. It's already used on their phones and tablets.

It's not just the Vita tanking or the Wii U not selling. There are many more 'signs' out there. The worst enemy of the new hardware will be their existing current gen hardware. More than ever they'll be competing with it. And if the rumors about no used games are true and if there is no solution for BC (mostly of interest for those who made a lot of online purchases this time around), game over. MS can also afford to fail. The brand can't fail though, it's no longer going to be a console brand. Sony cannot afford to fail, they're in poor financial shape. Sony could do everything right to cater to the core gamers (and I think they will try), sell a lot of games for third party publishers, and still fail. The demographic is not large enough when you take all those other elements away. Then there is PC which possibly because of Steam has kinda rebound from harder times (Steam has also slightly curbed PC gaming's largest problem: piracy. Piracy is still there but buying a AAA game for $15 with auto updates and the ability to download it anywhere is appealing to many former 'soft' pirates).

"That's how its always worked" is never a safe bet. Business as usual will run you into the ground.. unless you're a huge corporation and the government bails you out and instead of going to prison for destroying the economy you continue on business as usual... I don't think applies to video game consoles though.

I've seen people who call themselves gamers who I'm convinced don't noticed the difference between 30fpsa and 60fps. At least they don't care about it if they notice it. Even some of these sub HD rendering games look HD at normal sitting distances (from say a 55" TV, 7 to 10 feet). You'll have better visuals and better lighting, things that a small number of people care about. You'll have deeper gameplay experiences, AI, and physics if they choose to use them. But at the end of the day you could ground-up re-create the same game suiting to ancient HD twins hardware gimped in certain areas with compromised or faked lighting and the masses won't see the difference. That's assuming they would re-create one of the next gen titles, but hopefully you see my point.
 
Confirmation bias goes both ways. Thinking objectively about the whole thing, its hard to be optimistic about the future of dedicated console gaming.

Let's start with Microsoft. Although Microsoft is in competition with Sony in the console business, you have to remember that this is Microsoft. They make most of their money with Windows and Office licenses. Xbox is a very successful brand in the West but MS has lost billions to get there. MS is in the business to make money, not lose a lot of money and continue to pursue a market with low profitability for them. They obviously did this for a reason. According to that one guy, it was to 'kill' Sony. Whether or not that's true, the xbox 'experiment' had a lot to do with the taking over the living room. Something that Apple is also interested in obviously but doesn't really know how to proceed. Overall though, Apple is MS's main competitor. No I'm not saying Apple TV is in competition with consoles. Think about the whole picture.

The MS and Sony loss leader strategy lost them a ton of money and it doesn't look like either are doing it again (Sony can't afford to). They raised the bar and made it very expensive to compete which definitely effected Nintendo. I really think this started with PS2 being a loss leader. A new sexy console that played new sexy games and dvds for the price of a dvd player (pretty much anyways.. at the time of course) and it didn't break the bank (for consumers). The Wii didn't create the casual market like some people think, it expanded it to people like grandparents. There were casual games for the PS2 and many casual gamers. Not just core gamers.

Xbox brought console games closer to PC games than ever before, converting some PC gamers and introducing those experiences to others. It only sold 24+ million consoles compared to PS2's 150+ million. It had a higher attach rate than PS2 probably because core gamers buy more games. I doubt grandma ever played anything beyond Wii Sports on their Wii, in comparison.

360 and PS3 sales combined in the past 7 years sold about as much as the PS2 alone did in its first 7 years. How many of that is casual? Probably a lot going off kinect sales. Why mention this? Because in 2006, an overclocked gamecube was good enough for casual gamers. My laptop has overall better hardware than the rumored Durango/Orbis specs; the generation gap will be much smaller than the last one. I have no doubt that core gamers will buy the new hardware. But that's a lot smaller of a demographic than you probably think. I do think it's very possible the next xbox could sell 3x less than the 360. The PS3 didn't repeat the success of the PS2 with sales under half of PS2's lifetime total.

Publishers like EA will probably gimp their current gen ports to get you to buy new hardware and buy their games made for new hardware, but I only see a small demographic taking the plunge. PS3/360 might be ancient, but consumers don't really care about specs. They might care about graphics and games, but they've reached the point of diminishing returns. You and I might not think so, but the masses will. They don't make these consoles for just you and I, they make them to make money. Something that they lost a lot of to make a little bit for themselves with the current gen - not a good business model.

The tablets/smartphones have had an effect on consumer trends which will effect their console buying decisions. So will the poor economy, especially if these consoles are over $500. I think MS to some extent realizes all this which is why kinect 2.0 will come with it and they're pushing it as an entertainment console. They'll still cater to core gamers but the core gamers confirmation bias won't comprehend they are an afterthought. Xbox is a brand now and the next xbox console is more or less a PC. I have a feeling the brand will extend to the PC in addition to TVs and whatever they're talking about. It's already used on their phones and tablets.

It's not just the Vita tanking or the Wii U not selling. There are many more 'signs' out there. The worst enemy of the new hardware will be their existing current gen hardware. More than ever they'll be competing with it. And if the rumors about no used games are true and if there is no solution for BC (mostly of interest for those who made a lot of online purchases this time around), game over. MS can also afford to fail. The brand can't fail though, it's no longer going to be a console brand. Sony cannot afford to fail, they're in poor financial shape. Sony could do everything right to cater to the core gamers (and I think they will try), sell a lot of games for third party publishers, and still fail. The demographic is not large enough when you take all those other elements away. Then there is PC which possibly because of Steam has kinda rebound from harder times (Steam has also slightly curbed PC gaming's largest problem: piracy. Piracy is still there but buying a AAA game for $15 with auto updates and the ability to download it anywhere is appealing to many former 'soft' pirates).

"That's how its always worked" is never a safe bet. Business as usual will run you into the ground.. unless you're a huge corporation and the government bails you out and instead of going to prison for destroying the economy you continue on business as usual... I don't think applies to video game consoles though.

I've seen people who call themselves gamers who I'm convinced don't noticed the difference between 30fpsa and 60fps. At least they don't care about it if they notice it. Even some of these sub HD rendering games look HD at normal sitting distances (from say a 55" TV, 7 to 10 feet). You'll have better visuals and better lighting, things that a small number of people care about. You'll have deeper gameplay experiences, AI, and physics if they choose to use them. But at the end of the day you could ground-up re-create the same game suiting to ancient HD twins hardware gimped in certain areas with compromised or faked lighting and the masses won't see the difference. That's assuming they would re-create one of the next gen titles, but hopefully you see my point.

Really EA is going to gimp Ps3 and 360 games to get you to buy Ps4 games? This is the type of logic I'm going against. What purpose does this serve to their bottom line?

^^

....and diminishing returns my ass. That's another bad meme. If the average person can see the difference between Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty MW3 they are going to go nuts when they see Call of Duty Modern Warfare 4 looks even more realistic. As proof that this "diminishing returns" is just another logical fallacy we have to look no further than the film industry. From Tron to Toy Story to the Matrix. Perhaps James Cameron should've made Avatar on all that 70's 3D technology afterall..... Hell have you seen the work in those Halo 4 episodes?

That's all besides the point anyway as technology will drive mechanical innovation, the content and services will drive buying decisions. Name it, I can pick out any industry leading indicator that proves this fact going all the way back to the industrialization of America. A more logical, more objective approach will questioning weather Microsoft and Sony can deliver more than technological innovation because without the content there will be nobody there to buy their services and all the big content providers show no indication they won't be there in the launch window of these platforms. And ding, ding, ding we have proof of this. Why yes, the WiiU is proof that you can't deliver a platform that doesn't support content. A contentless platform is DoA. Though, this broken glass logic is amusingly entertaining: "Another console crash is coming" - Remember when everyone thought the world was going to end? That is what it sounds like to me.
 
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COD is a casual game? I'm sure Activision wants to sell it to the broadest audience possible but an FPS game, no matter how much it sells, seems more a core game.

People on this forum have a funny perception on casual gamers. Going by this forum casual players are blind(unable to spot difference between ps2-ps3 or ps3-ps4) , only play Singstar, madden and fifia!

I must say its ridiculously stupid generalization. Do you people have any real life friends at all? I know atleast 20 people who own consoles and are what you would define as casual (they play maybe once a month, sometimes more if a new game they really get hooked on comes out)

They are able to spot graphical differences between their x360 FIFA, and my ps3 FIFA. They own cod games, bf games, hell, they own skyrim!

Point is they own the same games you do, with the exception of one thing, they buy on feelings (whatever is advertised on tv or in store) while most people here read reviews. This causes them to buy more crap games than people who hang out here.

They are however not blind (yes they see graphical improvements just as easily as you do, they might not care as much as you however), they don't only play sports games, nor are they stupid
 
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Better than 360 and PS3 in their first 3 months, but I guess both of those failed, right? :rolleyes:
 
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Better than 360 and PS3 in their first 3 months, but I guess both of those failed, right? :rolleyes:

Ya it's clearly just supply issues like the 360, Best Buy doesn't want to open up a crate because they won't be able to return them so they aren't letting all the customers lined up buy one.

For the record neither the ps3 or 360 has had as bad a month in the US as the WiiU just had, in fact it isn't even close. The worst month for the ps3 was 82000, the 360 never sold less than 155k in a month in its first 6 years. And the Wii:U is going to sell less in Feb than it did in Jan as it will be a 4 week reporting month and there are no significant games. The Wii:U is tracking behind the Gamecube by quite a bit, perhaps that will be their new target. Gamecube sold 59k in its 3rd month, but that was a 4 week reporting period.
 
Interestingly, you take that graph from a Gamasutra piece describing the Wii U's launch as abysmal. Interesting spin you put on it...

XB360 was supply constrained. Read here and here. MS were aiming for only 2.5 to 3 million worldwide sales after 90 days.

PS3 reportedly only had <200k console available for the US launch and we all know about the infamous blue laser diode issues, and the very high price tag which Wii U isn't wearing about its neck. And the insane competition with Wii! Once PS3 overcame price, it went on to sell strongly.

Wii U has barely managed the same with no supply issues at all and plenty of boxes on the shelves, showing that it's lack of sales aren't due to supply but lack of interest. One can point to PS3's lack of interest over months 3-12, but compare market conditions and it's clear that though there were many crying doom and gloom back then for PS3, it had room to manoeuvre. It could drop price, had software including next-gen experience, and BRD value.

What can Nintendo do? It's too late to rush out more software, and the software isn't anything new unlike XB360 and PS3. It offers a more expensive box for cross-platform games. It hasn't a key alternative feature like BRD to push it - the possibilities of the tablet are severely gimp'd by its implementation. Nintendo can drop the price like they did 3DS, but the platform is still offering little more than the PS360 at lower prices and with better experience and software libraries. These current sales figures and stock situation shows the tablet just hasn't got appeal, and that's all Nintendo have.
 
The difference between the 3DS and the Wii U is really the fact that Nintendo has had multiple hardware generations of utter dominance. Nintendo dominates the games which define what many people consider to be handheld gaming and the fact that they gathered significant third party support this time essentially pushed the PSV out of the market. Their 3DS is like a pay TV company getting exclusive sports rights, if your competition doesn't have that then they have no hope in competing even if they offer similar or better services elsewhere because sports is just too important. Unfortunately for Nintendo they released a system which is disappointing and uninteresting. Even if they lower the price the system itself just ain't that great.
 
Nintendo has Pokemon and Mario, both of which dominate the handheld gaming scene, that should really explain at least a good portion of their success there I think. The presence of Pokemon and also its recognition to advance their console brand is never present though, which kind of hurts Nintendo I think. Console Pokemon games could be far bigger than Mario.
 
Interestingly, you take that graph from a Gamasutra piece describing the Wii U's launch as abysmal. Interesting spin you put on it...

The article has both spins built into it, equally interesting that you choose the other one... ;)

All I'm saying is, its not that bad... yet. Console sales have been trending down since 2010, low sales are expected. Now, if after they put out a bunch of their top selling games and franchises, they still are selling crappy, then they may have a big problem. However, its not a problem they can't solve, if they have to.
 
Nintendo has Pokemon and Mario, both of which dominate the handheld gaming scene, that should really explain at least a good portion of their success there I think. The presence of Pokemon and also its recognition to advance their console brand is never present though, which kind of hurts Nintendo I think. Console Pokemon games could be far bigger than Mario.

I guess this could be an answer for the question of getting the Wii U a 'killer' app? Haha a lot of people have been hoping for a real console pokemon for a long time. :p
 
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Better than 360 and PS3 in their first 3 months, but I guess both of those failed, right? :rolleyes:

I cannot talk about the US since i live in Spain, but i can tell you that during the first three months of PS3 and 360, it was very hard to get one. I've seen a bunch of WiiU sitting on shelves a week after its release.
 
I cannot talk about the US since i live in Spain, but i can tell you that during the first three months of PS3 and 360, it was very hard to get one. I've seen a bunch of WiiU sitting on shelves a week after its release.

Of course the situations are totally different. The XB360/PS3 were supply constrained while the WiiU has close to 1 Million units that has shipped but NOT sold. Anyone trying to compare the two launches must take that into account.
 
Of course the situations are totally different. The XB360/PS3 were supply constrained while the WiiU has close to 1 Million units that has shipped but NOT sold. Anyone trying to compare the two launches must take that into account.
I'm confused by this number. We learnt Nintendo 'sold' 3 million, but is that shipped or sold? I thought Nintendo uniquely reported self-tracked sell-through rather than sales to retailers.
 
The demand of Wii U has been abysmal compared to PS360 launches. No amount of chart flip flopping will change that. Perhaps with a price cut and proper software they can recover from this, but they are in a deep hole with Wii U right now, a super deep hole, no question about that.
 
I'm confused by this number. We learnt Nintendo 'sold' 3 million, but is that shipped or sold? I thought Nintendo uniquely reported self-tracked sell-through rather than sales to retailers.

Nintendo announced 3 million shipped but consumers have only bought 2 million.
 
Anecdote:
I was at Blockbuster this weekend when a customer asked about the WiiU games. The young lady behind the counter said, "those aren't for Wii, they're for WiiU which is a new system from Nintendo" - Second Young lady employee pipes in "yeah it's like a portable console that isn't really a portable because you can't leave your house with it ... it's really stupid"

I just laughed.

Though they might have some success in turning WiiU into a portable in a year or two ... :oops:
 
This poll is funny because for each user that votes "Yes", 10 others come right away and vote "No".
 
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