If you're prepared to eat into yields then you can alter clock speeds without even having to redesign power supply and cooling and make a final decision shortly before beginning production. And if your planning is good then having the option to draw and dissipate a few more Watts 12 ~ 18 months out needn't be such a huge deal.
NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*
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If you're prepared to eat into yields then you can alter clock speeds without even having to redesign power supply and cooling and make a final decision shortly before beginning production. And if your planning is good then having the option to draw and dissipate a few more Watts 12 ~ 18 months out needn't be such a huge deal.
Well ... yeah. I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Durango has a lot more BW per core/shader/TMU/ROP per mHz than Trinity and that's even true when completely excluding the fast, low latency embedded ram.
And unless Durango is wasting huge amounts of BW copying data between the two memory pools it'll have similar or greater BW per shader/TMU/ROP than Orbis. And the CPU core will probably benefit more from lower latency access and better controlled bus contention than from having a single high BW bus.
SenjutsuSage
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Many people operate on a more is always better most of the time mentality. Such concerns that go to the heart of how things may or may not actually end up playing out in real world terms doesn't seem to matter all that much.
I don't really get the competition with mobile gaming. I wouldn't even get the idea to use my phone or even pad at home to play. Neither would I think about carrying around my consoles.
Unless of course I don't see the huge potential of gaming while sitting on the toilet.
I don't think there will be much copying actually. The gpu can render to both memory pools. I would imagine that most bandwidth intensive operations like pixel operations, post processing etc and framebuffer/render target will be done on the eSRAM, but if your buffer is too large or if you have multiple render targets that cannot be contained in the eSRAM, you can render some to the eSRAM and other to the ddr3. This will then be sent to the display unit.
Betanumerical
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IIRC render bandwidth is either 102GB/s or 68GB/s no both combined.
The gpu can access both pool that the same time. It is 68gb/s and 102gb/s. They can be in use at the same time.
Betanumerical
Veteran
Well I've had people tell me the exact words of "Render Bandwidth 102GB/s OR 68GB/s" . it pretty specific that it can only render to one at a time.
Love_In_Rio
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Thuway, once more, drops in neogaf that ESRAM in Durango is half the transistors of a GTX680. It would be indeed 6T-SRAM then.
Does that mean you can't put different buffers in different locations though? For example put alpha and Z in the esram (and do lots of fast early Z rejection), and write your colour to main memory?
From VGLeaks:
If the VGleaks info is correct, individual pages can be in either ESRAM or main memory. That's the way I read it anyway.
Cheers
This is how I see it as well.
I'm sure that for something like post processing having source texture/buffer in ESRAM and output buffer in main ram can be quite nice win.
Especially if you have some random reads.
Betanumerical
Veteran
Ah okay i must of heard them wrong then because i heard a big OR in there
We keep hearing numbers to numbers comparison aren't relevant between Orbis and Durango in reference to performance. So I guess we will see. Personally, I would like to see Durango with 12GB DDR3 on a 384bit controller for 102GBs main bandwidth and atleast 40mb of edram and closer to 1.5TF gpu, especially if the rumors of a heavy OS footprint are true. The lack of any updated leaks from the hundreds of developers working on hardware leads me to believe the leaks may be accurate.
I think MS has really evolved console gaming with their last two systems. They've taken the online FPS expereince of the late 90's and brought it to the living room and made it accessable to the 'dudebro' crowd. The 360 was a refinement and I think caught Sony off guard who got comfortable to pulling people away from Mario as they grew up.
Areas MS should be really concerned is catering to demographic they may not exist or may not be profitable and Sony actively coming after the COD/Halo crowd with a system they may put out better visuals. MS may be assuming everyone on Xbox live will come along. If Durango is boardroom answer to the original Wii they may be in trouble. Wii was never popular, Wii Sports was a fad. Casuals don't buy games, look at attach rates.
I think MS has really evolved console gaming with their last two systems. They've taken the online FPS expereince of the late 90's and brought it to the living room and made it accessable to the 'dudebro' crowd. The 360 was a refinement and I think caught Sony off guard who got comfortable to pulling people away from Mario as they grew up.
Areas MS should be really concerned is catering to demographic they may not exist or may not be profitable and Sony actively coming after the COD/Halo crowd with a system they may put out better visuals. MS may be assuming everyone on Xbox live will come along. If Durango is boardroom answer to the original Wii they may be in trouble. Wii was never popular, Wii Sports was a fad. Casuals don't buy games, look at attach rates.
Some things I'm seeing going into this gen
-Sony seems much less arrogant, which I like. They're trying.
-Sony bringing out they're usual 1st part staples like Killzone, very short sighted. It will always be a Halo wannabe. Now is the time to get gamers excited about something new.
-MS losing the prestige of Xbox putting out better visuals.
-Durango hardware feeling like pulled punch
-PS4 being easy to get good visuals from.
-Sony seems much less arrogant, which I like. They're trying.
-Sony bringing out they're usual 1st part staples like Killzone, very short sighted. It will always be a Halo wannabe. Now is the time to get gamers excited about something new.
-MS losing the prestige of Xbox putting out better visuals.
-Durango hardware feeling like pulled punch
-PS4 being easy to get good visuals from.
Actually I think launching with Killzone is a very good idea. From the trailer and the description it looks different and yet retains some of the identity of previous ones. This will be a good opportunity to relaunch the franchise, especially if the game turns out to be very good.
Sony are doing both. They will announce new IPs and experiences later, presumably in E3. They said launch period is a good time to introduce new IPs.
For existing games, I hope they go for the next lap in user generated content. The copious amount of memory, and the more mature toolset should make it possible. Perhaps regular PS4 can also be a devkit a la iOS devices and PS Mobile. Even better if they give UE4 tool to the end users to create user levels.
For existing games, I hope they go for the next lap in user generated content. The copious amount of memory, and the more mature toolset should make it possible. Perhaps regular PS4 can also be a devkit a la iOS devices and PS Mobile. Even better if they give UE4 tool to the end users to create user levels.
What's the use of Remote Play working on Vita when only 5 people have them?
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