NGGP: NextGen Garbage Pile (aka: No one reads the topics or stays on topic) *spawn*

[DJ12]

Yes but the Yukon project is not the one that went forward it was Durango so that slide Is irrelevant.

I agree with the other guy. Some desperate xbox fanboys that cannot cope with the idea the next box is going to be moderately powered and aimed squarely at a market revealed by nintendo. Kinect will likely be in every box and Microsoft will probably be the number 1 selling console (if Kinect 2 has fixed the lag and added more players)

Businesses do not care about you or I they care about making money.

 

[Docwiz]

Yes but the Yukon project is not the one that went forward it was Durango so that slide Is irrelevant.

I agree with the other guy. Some desperate xbox fanboys that cannot cope with the idea the next box is going to be moderately powered and aimed squarely at a market revealed by nintendo. Kinect will likely be in every box and Microsoft will probably be the number 1 selling console (if Kinect 2 has fixed the lag and added more players)

Businesses do not care about you or I they care about making money.

That is great, but we don't have all of the information yet and this is the closest we have. I don't care about who is better. I am trying to find out what is really going on. There is more information we don't have vs what we really do have.

If it's really as basic as you say then Microsoft is the biggest money waster in history. Wasting not only time of researching but tons of money as well. They completely wasted AMD's time and a lot of their talent and they completely wasted a ton of IBM's time and talent and it doesn't add up ($99.00 with hundreds of millions of dollars of research).

Stop thinking fanboys and acting like someone is but hurt over this. It's purely ignorant and a bunch of bullshit.

I mean FFS people look at the information we do have and it still doesn't add up to what is being rumored.
Some of that information from Yukon is most likely being used.

So people should start taking incomplete rumors from a year ago as fact. oh okay...

Some people use common sense while others use bullshit.

For the first time, this entire forum has become worse than some of the worst gaming forums on the Internet.
I used to come here for knowledge and information and it's sadly turned into a mess with people accusing other people of fanboy drivel because they don't understand what an "incomplete rumor" from a year ago is.

 

[DJ12]

so they spend money researching a console that may not suit you and their wasting money?

And you are trying not to come across as a disgruntled fanboy, and failing at it.

 

[(((interference)))]

Nah, he's not disgruntled (yet), he's actually channelling the unflaggingly optimistic spirit of N2O.

But come on guys, it's completely reasonable to expect 2 GPUs with a combined 3+ TF in a 150W box.

Don't you realise? "Security guards at MS, mean a 1.2TF GPU is BS!"

That even rhymes, ergo, it has to be true!

......

NON SEQUITURS FTW!

 

[Docwiz]

so they spend money researching a console that may not suit you and their wasting money?

And you are trying not to come across as a disgruntled fanboy, and failing at it.

Well, I don't give a shit. I am at least trying to put together what I see on documentation. You are two are the reason this forum has gone down hill and that has nothing to do with Microsoft or specs.

Did you guys get banned at neogaf so you signed up here and act like total twats?

 

[DJ12]

No you are not, you are trying to convince yourself and others a slide from 2010 for a cancelled project is what we should be paying attention too and not the ground swell of information coming out that is being confirmed correct by several people "in the know" such as those with dev kits.

 

[aladin]

The engineering part is almost irrelevant. Any engineer could come up with the idea of putting nice GPU with 4GB GDDR5 in gaming console. The problem happens when higher ups want all sorts of other crap to go along (certain motion sensor camera, huge OS etc.) that leaves less room for packing something powerful yet simple.


I don't think they can outdo MS on engineering part either (meaning console hardware design). Limits are pretty clear (watts, transistors, money and multimedia) for both, and both get the hardware from the same vendors.

Microsoft is a software company not hardware. So you expect them to do good in OS. However what is really sad they do not care about gaming.

With the rumors stating PS4 50% powerful than 360. I think this is best thing can happen to gaming. No use of playing same game on console which can be done on PC.

 

[Docwiz]

Nah, he's not disgruntled (yet), he's actually channelling the unflaggingly optimistic spirit of N2O.

But come on guys, it's completely reasonable to expect 2 GPUs with a combined 3+ TF in a 150W box.

Don't you realise? "Security guards at MS, mean a 1.2TF GPU is BS!"

That even rhymes, ergo, it has to be true!

......

NON SEQUITURS FTW!

I thought it was a 200 watt box. Are the goal posts moving?

Are we to think that Microsoft is pulling out features now like transcoding?

Hey guys, you can all settle down now because we are not even going to put Windows RT in the box. Instead we bought the OS from Commodore.

 

[Ruskie]

No you are not, you are trying to convince yourself and others a slide from 2010 for a cancelled project is what we should be paying attention too and not the ground swell of information coming out that is being confirmed correct by several people "in the know" such as those with dev kits.

I think a lot of the things they showed on that slide are happing now actually. Obviously, engineering wise that presentation was bogus, but clear goals for performance jump seem to be on point. 6-8x performance jump, more in memory less in GPU, but still somewhere around that number.

Microsoft is a software company not hardware. So you expect them to do good in OS. However what is really sad they do not care about gaming.

With the rumors stating PS4 50% powerful than 360. I think this is best thing can happen to gaming. No use of playing same game on console which can be done on PC.

That doesn't really matter. They may be software first company, but they have engineering team of very competent people who could probably do much "better" job for us tech heads if that was the higher ups goal.

 

[Nisaaru]

Yes but the Yukon project is not the one that went forward it was Durango so that slide Is irrelevant.

I agree with the other guy. Some desperate xbox fanboys that cannot cope with the idea the next box is going to be moderately powered and aimed squarely at a market revealed by nintendo. Kinect will likely be in every box and Microsoft will probably be the number 1 selling console (if Kinect 2 has fixed the lag and added more players)

Businesses do not care about you or I they care about making money.

Well, I'm not sure what MS has learned from the Wii but I've learned that a new gimmick can sell a lot of consoles for a reasonable time but it can't help selling a lot games because the hardware was too weak to satisfy the expectations of users and devs.
And seemingly the users also learned a lesson from not really buying into Nintendo's next gimmick again because the old one collected dust.

 

[Docwiz]

If it does turn out to be 1.2 TF with only one GPU, then there has to be more than Kinect 2.0 in the box. Kinect costs only around $50 and that was with Microsoft buying technology from an outside source. With Kinect 2.0, they can now make their own chip so it would be even cheaper.

 

[patsu]

No, he is referring to the fact a half year ago Orbis (PS4) was a 4 core / 2GB GDDR5 design and now the rumors say 8 core 4GB GDDR5 design.

Now the "in the know" insiders will say, "Those were just revisions" wink wink. i.e. "Rumors weren't wrong! They only change." But if you look at the various leaks and how the various CPU architectures changed, etc. this is just code for "I was leaking accurate information, the target only changed." Which, you know, really haven't changed much 18 months out from launch. People get very old design stage info that is years old or just plain bad information--or intentional disinformation--and it is always reconciled away.

Seriously, I don't see anyone eating crow over getting the Orbis CPU count wrong by 2x! Instead I see a lot of crowing over "look at me, I got new information!" and a lot of posturing how insiders "have real info." Really? Then how is it something as basic as the core count could be so wrong right up until 10 months before product launch?

What else do they have wrong? It isn't like Sony magically decided in December to double the CPUs. So what other information do insiders flat out have wrong?

Based on supposedly leaked Orbis alpha dev kit info, it was supposed to be 4 3.2Ghz Steamroller "cores", but there has been persistent rumors about a possible change to 8 1.6GHz Jaguar cores since then. So forumites have always noted Orbis CPU as 4 Steamrollers/8 Jaguars.

For memory, it was "2GB GDDR5, pushing for 4GB". And then later people "confirmed" that it has gone 4.

The rest of the info remains "consistent" except for the extra h/w bits. Earlier indications revealed that Orbis alpha kit has extra h/w for video, audio and Zlib work. But Eurogamer mentioned additional GPU-like compute units without saying anything about those h/w units.

 

[Grall]

It's in the original documentation from September 2010.

What documentation are you referring to, exactly? There's no actual, publically available documentation for either of the next-gen consoles in development right now. The leaked MS document from several years ago was a concept description only; it's not "documentation".

This is what I really expect it to be and not some gimped machine everyone expects it to be.

...Based on what, your own personal hopes, dreams and well wishes? You don't seem to have anything else to go on.

Even I have two GPU's in my system (one inside of the processor as an APU) and then I have a dedicated 670 GTX, it's not rocket science.

What you have or don't have doesn't relate in any way to what MS or Sony or anyone else choose to put into their consoles. I hope you understand that. "If I can have 2 GPUs, so can anyone" is not a valid argument in this situation.

This is high speculation but it could have this...
< ... >
DDR3 would work fine along with 64 MB of ESRAM. If I am correct (correct me if I am wrong here), you could do 2/1080p for 3D.

You are aware of how much die space 64MB of SRAM takes up, right? You find anything even approaching that much only in the most hardcore of big iron mainframe CPUs that cost tens of thousands of dollars apiece. If you're expecting that much in a consumer product you're in for a big disappointment.

All of this makes a lot more sense than Raytracing or a gimped Xbox 720 that people think it is.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

...Disappointed, yeah.

 

[deanos]

No, he is referring to the fact a half year ago Orbis (PS4) was a 4 core / 2GB GDDR5 design and now the rumors say 8 core 4GB GDDR5 design.

Wrong, it was 2 GB UMA, pushing for 4GB since the beginning.
http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/

 

[Hornet]

You are aware of how much die space 64MB of SRAM takes up, right?

If by ESRAM they mean 1T-SRAM, which is basically EDRAM, 64 MB should be around 40 mm^2 at 28 nm.... It doesn't seem that much to be honest.

 

[aladin]

I think a lot of the things they showed on that slide are happing now actually. Obviously, engineering wise that presentation was bogus, but clear goals for performance jump seem to be on point. 6-8x performance jump, more in memory less in GPU, but still somewhere around that number.


That doesn't really matter. They may be software first company, but they have engineering team of very competent people who could probably do much "better" job for us tech heads if that was the higher ups goal.

Looking at theie E3 conferences and how they have gone about 360. It gives me very little confidence. I really hope next gen they have more games, IP

 

[Grall]

If by ESRAM they mean 1T-SRAM

Yeah, but those are two very different things. 1T SRAM is actually not SRAM at all, so one should be specific when using labels, otherwise language becomes meaningless and communication, difficult at best.

 

[Nisaaru]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

...Disappointed, yeah.

An article which looked like incest mesh of what was talked about here and elsewhere the last few weeks. Even with the same dev environment picture leaks. Sounds like some feedback loop to me.

 

[Docwiz]

What documentation are you referring to, exactly? There's no actual, publically available documentation for either of the next-gen consoles in development right now. The leaked MS document from several years ago was a concept description only; it's not "documentation".


...Based on what, your own personal hopes, dreams and well wishes? You don't seem to have anything else to go on.


What you have or don't have doesn't relate in any way to what MS or Sony or anyone else choose to put into their consoles. I hope you understand that. "If I can have 2 GPUs, so can anyone" is not a valid argument in this situation.


You are aware of how much die space 64MB of SRAM takes up, right? You find anything even approaching that much only in the most hardcore of big iron mainframe CPUs that cost tens of thousands of dollars apiece. If you're expecting that much in a consumer product you're in for a big disappointment.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

...Disappointed, yeah.

"At this time we cannot confirm the make-up of the Durango graphics hardware - rumours have circulated for quite some time that it is some way behind Orbis, but equally there has been the suggestion that the GPU itself is supplemented by additional task-specific hardware. We could not confirm this, but an ex-Microsoft staffer with a prior relationship with the Xbox team says that two of these modules are graphics-related."

Yeah, disappointed. Read the bold parts. And that Yukon pdf did have a lot of things that Microsoft is working on.

 

[Barrabas]

Hmmm....seems that this old article may have something to it?

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...s4-weve-never-been-first-never-been-cheapest/