Time for AMD to pull out the desktop market?

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Well, I've ditched my bulldozer now, thankfully. The performance per watt lag of AMD behind Intel is nothing short of horrible these days, and AMD should probably pull out of the CPU market, and concentrate on their graphics cards and APU's for laptops where they still retain an advantage in terms of performance. I know that will unfortunately kill innovation on Intel's part but I think AMD have released too many bad products to be a viable competitor anymore.
 
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Too many bad products? I believe that their Fusion APUs thus far have been a fair success. And those are targetted not only at the mobile but the desktop space as well.

Regards,
SB
 
AMD should really have waited until Piledriver at least before releasing a inefficient unfinished architecture. Now their reputation has gone up in flames. Intel will deliver the killer blow soon enough. Sorry, if that's sounds fanboyish, but AMD have had their chances to turn themselves around.
 
Ones that don't want to face a monopoly suit?

And ones that may not have the factory capacity to cover the whole world with x86 solutions, a flaw that would drive their customers to ARM solutions.


Compared to ARM (which means Qualcomm+Samsung+Apple+ST-Ericsson+TI+nVidia+Mediatek+AMLogic+Huawei+many others together), AMD is Intel's best friend nowadays.
 
And ones that may not have the factory capacity to cover the whole world with x86 solutions, a flaw that would drive their customers to ARM solutions.


Compared to ARM (which means Qualcomm+Samsung+Apple+ST-Ericsson+TI+nVidia+Mediatek+AMLogic+Huawei+many others together), AMD is Intel's best friend nowadays.

Good point.
 
And ones that may not have the factory capacity to cover the whole world with x86 solutions, a flaw that would drive their customers to ARM solutions.


Compared to ARM (which means Qualcomm+Samsung+Apple+ST-Ericsson+TI+nVidia+Mediatek+AMLogic+Huawei+many others together), AMD is Intel's best friend nowadays.

Somewhat tangential to the original question don't you think? Which was about desktop space...
 
Here is where I insert my standard rant about how mind-numbingly stupid you have to be to think that having a single player in any market segment is good. Competition breeds lower prices and better performance. Monopoly breeds high prices and stagnation.
 
Somewhat tangential to the original question don't you think? Which was about desktop space...

Well, ARM (thus, all the others) has a break with Windows 8. All those nettop computers and, heck, mostly all corporate PCs could run on ARM except for one little, tiny, detail: lack of desktop application support. In spite of that, I think it will be good for ARM. Obviously, I don't believe they could make up for AMD leaving the desktop market though.

swaaye said:
Intel surely could build up their capacity if they saw the need.

Could? Probably. Would they? Would they want to even? Probably no on both of these. Why invest millions to grab a share of the market they could end up losing again in a few years to ARM or whoever? Why not simply raise prices because of Supply & Demand: much more profitable.

Speaking of which, like Mize I'm a bit dumbstruck at the notion that someone could argue one company should say goodbye out of a market where only another company competes. No matter how incompetent AMD might have been/is/whatever, it still does a far better job than having no competition at all.

The first consequences would be a meaningful markup on Intel CPUs. Mid-term we'd have the same CPUs as now, just with bigger numbers on the box.
 
If Steamroller adds more performance per clock over Piledriver you will find that AMD are right back in the game. Piledriver per clock was found to be something like 15% better than Zambezi.

Our per-clock cycle testing suggests that the revised design, as it’s implemented on Trinity, is as much as 15% faster than Bulldozer.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224-21.html

This was achieved without improvements to the cache architecture which remains about the same.

IMHO - I may be upgrading to a Steamroller based CPU in the very near future!
 
AMD isn't sized to waltz out of the desktop market. It's too big and too unsuccessful with the market share it has now across all its segments.

At any rate, it already has effectively given up on the desktop market, since the chips it uses to service desktops are server or laptop chips that don't make the cut for their respective bins.
What else is AMD going to do with those?
 
And that matters why?

Reality is 99,99% of the market doesn't care or doesn't need a high end cpu. Even basic photo/video edeting can be done withouth a problem on the low end chips (hell, I had to design a whole website with just my amd e450 laptop, not the fastest thing in the world but it works fine if you don't try to do 10 things at the same time). Even for gaming you don't really need a fast chip. My q6600 still runs all games more than good and I believe that compares to something like a i3 these days.

AMD might not be competing with intel when it comes to the fastest cpu's but they have some great products. On the laptop/netbook side they are, imo, a better choice than intel because AMD actually delivers a gpu that works and on the desktop side you can build a really nice system for much less money than when you would buy the same at intel.
 
I just bought new innards for my main pc, with an AMD octo-core FX-8120. Ok, I know it's only roughly a 6-core and the upper Intel i5s and i7s are faster for applications that use ~2 cores, out of the box.

However, it is faster than any Intel less than 150% as expensive. And it suffers mostly from bad scheduling by the Windows task scheduler. Because it requires just about the opposite approach of an Intel. Let me explain.

If you run applications that use multiple cores, you'll see that the first, third, and (when available) fifth and seventh core are all pushed to the max, while the even cores are mostly idle. Because the Windows scheduler expects those cores to be virtual, hyperthreaded ones. And it makes more sense to use a "full" core than a "virtual" one, to balance the load.

Further, it tries to keep processes on that same core as much as possible, to prevent cache misses and rescheduling demands.

Then again, if you use an AMD CPU, the opposite makes more sense: try and schedule multiple threads of the same processes on the same core pair. That increases the overall speed and prevents stalling.

The octo-cores do have a full set of 8 integer pipelines, only the floating point and special units (which are faster than the Intel ones) are shared. That means, that if a thread is waiting on the result of another one, it will stall if it isn't running on the same core-pair while using the special units. Which you can easily see in the Windows task manager: while the Intel cores tend to have an average load that fluctuates mildly, the AMD load tends to consist of spikes.

Or, in other words: they stall all the time.

So, the problem isn't so much bad/slow AMD processors, as it is bad scheduling in Windows that greatly favors Intel CPU's.

And as soon as software can really make use of 8 cores or if you like virtualizing, those octo-cores will outperform the more than twice as expensive Intel ones.
 
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Your usage case must be relatively uncommon, since Windows didn't do what you are describing until performance complaints prompted an AMD-specific change to move threads across modules in a manner resembling the optimum for Intel.
 
That article points out that the scheduler defaults to moving threads to inactive modules first, then to inactive secondary cores, which is an improvment over what Windows did prior.

I wouldn't blame Windows for having worse scheduling prior to the change. I'd say the blame is more on a fragile architecture that requires more handholding than most.
 
I have no regrets with my two new FX8120 and FX4100 builds. They were relatively cheap too. Didn't see a need to go with Intel.
 
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