News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[RancidLunchmeat]

I hope prices to be lower, I will buying the license, not the game itself.

I don't know if the DRM thing will make game prices lower, publishers want more money not less. Although, if they are strictly digital and the publishers are in control of pricing, you may very well see timed discounted pricing, ala Steam. But I wouldn't expect this would impact the pricing of new, Day 1 sales.

But I do think what might impact pricing is the broadband requirement. MS has given up a huge chunk of their potential market by limiting the One to only those with broadband. To me, this is a sign they don't believe they can recover the costs of a loss-leading console through game sales alone. The broadband requirement is there to make sure their customers have the ability to purchase additional services through Live. So the price of the One might actually be lower (or subsidized to a greater extent, depending on your perspective), than otherwise because they aren't selling the console to people who will only use it as a BR player or will only play off-line games and can't purchase additional services at huge profit for MS.

It also means that they can probably increase their advertising fee schedule as their entire costumer base will now be obvious to advertisers, 100% of sales.

 

[dumbo11]

I don't know if the DRM thing will make game prices lower, publishers want more money not less. Although, if they are strictly digital and the publishers are in control of pricing, you may very well see timed discounted pricing, ala Steam. But I wouldn't expect this would impact the pricing of new, Day 1 sales.

It may be that EA/activision will give 'preferential pricing' to Durango, knowing they will get a cut of any second hand sales?
Alternatively, MS may be willing to cut the box price, knowing that *they* will get a cut of any second hand sales?

Other than that, it's hard any upsides .

 

[AlphaWolf]

The big upside is that perhaps the people who actually make the games will get paid and they can keep making good games instead of releasing a title and going bankrupt. The price of games has gone up almost nothing in my 30+ years of gaming.

 

[James Car]

Actually I'm speaking of the overall tone that was present in 2005/2006 in my view. So hard facts wont really be dealt with here

There was a time when we didn't know how powerful PS3 was. We had just the barest rumors and innuendo, because it wasn't out yet. There was a lot of fear 360 was going to get blown away, swept under the rug, dreamcasted.

I guess I'm looking big pictuire, Other have brought up "Sony said Ps3 was 2 tf's!" like it was some huge crime, but I dont even remember it being a big deal back then. I had forgotten it.

It may be a specific to pick on that was innaccurate, but I dont recall it being important.




As I recall this was right at a crucial time (although I dont remember the exact timing) where us on B3D and elsewhere where kinda, just like I outlined above, waiting for the potential PS3 Hurricane. Nelson came out with that and imo it was born out by 360 being relatively on par with PS3 for the last 8 years.

Shame (and sad commentary on MS priorities) he may not be in a position to do the same with Xbox One this time around.





Major Nelson doesn't seem evil to me, in fact he seems like a nice guy. He mainly tweets about "gonna play XXX game tonight" and benign stuff like that. Or what you would call housekeeping, "here's what's new on XBL this week", "here are the most played charts this week", whatever.

Of course he has constraints, like any employee, we should know that going in. And he also likely doesn't know his tech, but I'll take his tech knowledge over Reggie "check that 1080P box" any day

I remember those days all too well. Consensus seemed to be that ps3 would be head and shoulders above xb360 and it would show in texture resolution and variety (bluray), physics and interactivity (cell), and gameworld size/variety (bluray).

All of that being said, xb360 more than held it's own mostly due to two factors:

1) Cell spent most of it's life helping the anemic RSX try and keep up with the much more forward looking xenos
2) Devs didn't have the time/money to exploit any advantage that bluray/cell would offer for multiplats.


Fast forward to today, xbone offers no such advantage. The design is not leaning on some forward-looking-never-before-seen-tech to match or exceed the competition given the same die space.

Knowing what we know it's hard to quantify if Sony were pure genius in their design choices or if MS simply dropped the ball.

 

[Jwm]

Trying to think, xna compiled code runs on x86 or 360 (going to ignore phone for the moment but easy to run same code on all three). What if we see some sort of support for xbla and xblig 360 games on X1. Would be a huge boost to the library, and if a netbook is able to run xna games in the emulator X1 would be fine. Just thinking inside the box maybe, my gut says we would see a new program similar to Win8 apps and will have to resubmit our projects after making changes for new capabilities.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Alternatively, MS may be willing to cut the box price, knowing that *they* will get a cut of any second hand sales?

Where's the idea that MS is getting a cut of any second hand sales coming from? The MS press release that confirmed all the worst fears states pretty clearly that any fee for approved used sales is at the will of the publisher and that MS receives no portion of them.

Now, MS does get a cut of new game sales. And with used games and rental games eliminated, there can be a line of thought that MS will profit as a result of increased new game sales. (Yes, I know.. people sell games and use that money to buy new ones, so eliminating used games will reduce, not increase new game sales, yada yada yada. We don't need to go through that again.)

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Hello to thanks but no thanks, it's basicly a list of things feared from the start. On top of it all is the lack of ownership of something i BOUGHT.. i hope that the EU will sue Microsoft into hell until they give in.
And the same goes for Sony of course if they are as mindless and stupid and introduces the same crap...

What makes you think that MS (or Sony, if/when they announce a similar DRM) would be the responsible party? Everything in MS' release clearly states that allowing for used games or transfer of game ownership is the publisher's choice and responsibility. The EU wouldn't be suing the console manufacturer, they'd be suing the various publishers.

 

[xexuxjy]

I'm sure xblig games could probably run via an xna layer, but there are only a handful of xna xbla games. It could be more embarrassing for MS to allow the xblig to run on X1 then not....

 

[-tkf-]

What makes you think that MS (or Sony, if/when they announce a similar DRM) would be the responsible party? Everything in MS' release clearly states that allowing for used games or transfer of game ownership is the publisher's choice and responsibility. The EU wouldn't be suing the console manufacturer, they'd be suing the various publishers.

True, though i am not really in the know how this works when it comes to real legal matters.

If Microsoft as a publisher does the same shit as other publishers by all means sue them, just as other publishers.. same goes for Sony.

 

[Docwiz]

The big upside is that perhaps the people who actually make the games will get paid and they can keep making good games instead of releasing a title and going bankrupt. The price of games has gone up almost nothing in my 30+ years of gaming.

I remember when Nintendo 64 games were $70 a piece. Now new "high quality" console games are $60 and now we have iOS and Android games that are $1.00 so something has to give.

Now we will never see games that were $60 and now they are $1.00, however I really do believe this is the beginning of the end for disk games. It's all going digital from here.

I could see something like this happen....

1) Publishers are trying to drive people to download digital copies, if Microsoft is using Bit Torrent like the rumors said, then there could be a lot seeds and the download could happen much faster which would be far more convenient and it could happen when you are not even home or while you sleep. For example, maybe you can play the demo pay for the full game and schedule it to download when it comes out at 12:00 am automatically, so when you get home from work, your game is already installed on the hard drive.

2) Prices will be driven down on the digital version of the game. Because there is no middle man or third party, the publisher/developer get most of the money from the digital sale with a small percentage going to Microsoft. You could see a $20 drop on day one of the game launch. Because of this games could be around $30-$40 at launch which is a much better deal than $60 and in theory people could buy more games.

3) The disk games could still be at $50 (at the very least) or $60 for the same version of the game, this would help push the digital consumption of the game. People that have limited bandwidth would still have the option but they would have to pay more for it. They would still have one last option which is used game sales which would give them the price of the digital version, but not on day one. This is something that changes over time. In six months the games would be cheaper for example.

 

[expletive]

What makes you think that MS (or Sony, if/when they announce a similar DRM) would be the responsible party? Everything in MS' release clearly states that allowing for used games or transfer of game ownership is the publisher's choice and responsibility. The EU wouldn't be suing the console manufacturer, they'd be suing the various publishers.

What would also be interesting is if MS allowed publishers to opt-in to the 24 hour "phone-home" feature as well. To me thats the main thing they are (unfairly) taking heat for right now that isnt easily attributed to the publishers.

I dont see why this would be hard to have an installed game flagged as Yes/No for "Requires 24 hour Heartbeat"

Hello to thanks but no thanks, it's basicly a list of things feared from the start. On top of it all is the lack of ownership of something i BOUGHT.. i hope that the EU will sue Microsoft into hell until they give in.

You've never really owned games to begin with, publishers inability to manage the licensing aspect of games remotely just hid that from you all these years.

 

[upnorthsox]

Where's the idea that MS is getting a cut of any second hand sales coming from? The MS press release that confirmed all the worst fears states pretty clearly that any fee for approved used sales is at the will of the publisher and that MS receives no portion of them.

Now, MS does get a cut of new game sales. And with used games and rental games eliminated, there can be a line of thought that MS will profit as a result of increased new game sales. (Yes, I know.. people sell games and use that money to buy new ones, so eliminating used games will reduce, not increase new game sales, yada yada yada. We don't need to go through that again.)

Or they could just raise their new game fee to say $15 and take it up front while still claiming to not be charging for used games.

They did walk this back though, at least to where they publicly take their cut, I guess I'd want to be reasonably sure that this wasn't planned all along before giving them props for it.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

You've never really owned games to begin with, publishers inability to manage the licensing aspect of games remotely just hid that from you all these years.

Interesting concept (to me anyway), and maybe somebody knows - have you ever, in recent times anyway, owned any piece of software that you purchase?

Or have you always just owned licenses? Isn't that what the EULA is all about? Because if you truly owned the software, you could then be expected to be allowed to modify it. Take it apart, put it back together, add a supercharger or Alpine stereo, paint racing stripes down the hood or even take the springs out to make it a low rider.

I just figured I'd skip all the nonsense and get right to the car analogy.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Things are starting to look grim here in Europe.

Pretty decent, nice people, men and women, (some of whom I admire), who helped to create a thriving, very interesting Xbox community are jumping off the bandwagon in droves if the forums are to be believed.

What? What? Seriously, what??

 

[expletive]

Interesting concept (to me anyway), and maybe somebody knows - have you ever, in recent times anyway, owned any piece of software that you purchase?

Or have you always just owned licenses? Isn't that what the EULA is all about? Because if you truly owned the software, you could then be expected to be allowed to modify it. Take it apart, put it back together, add a supercharger or Alpine stereo, paint racing stripes down the hood or even take the springs out to make it a low rider.

I just figured I'd skip all the nonsense and get right to the car analogy.

That's my understanding, the EULA (or most of them) was essentially saying "While there's nothing we can technically can do to stop you, here are your legal rights as a license owner". For example, only install Adobe Photoshop on two computers you own, MS Office XP on one computer, cant resell, modify, etc...

That said, I'm always up for a good car analogy, so have it it.

 

[Cyan]

Breaking PR barriers seems more believable....

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

What a clusterfuck


Hello to thanks but no thanks, it's basicly a list of things feared from the start. On top of it all is the lack of ownership of something i BOUGHT.. i hope that the EU will sue Microsoft into hell until they give in.
And the same goes for Sony of course if they are as mindless and stupid and introduces the same crap..

I really REALLY hope that the gaming press will drop everything and simply will give them hell until they understand that they can give up on this or live without PR (as if.. ) Neither Sony or Microsoft should get through with this..

Seem that my early purchase of the BroSolo from Microsoft has been postponed until they wake up and smell the freaking coffee.. such a let down..

YES, this is likely to happen in the EU. They are going to get sued here, most probably. And I am going to sign it. I want you SUED Microsoft.

Point is... there should be NO need for the Xbone to keep checking that you are online, licensed to use a game etc. It adds anything of real value for the user.

I hadn't, but had I pre-ordered the console I'd cancel my pre-order to show my solidarity with other people.

I am genuinely interested in the console, have always been, that's the saddest part. It is Microsoft who don't want me to fancy it.

Superb article Eurogamer, you have gained a new fan over this forever.

 

[MrFox]

What's the point of putting pressure on Microsoft now that they explained how it works?
Does anyone still thinks there's a possibility they'll backtrack?

If I understand correctly that they haven't implemented a robust disc-level copy protection and never intended to have one, and never had a Plan B, it's probably way too late now, even if they wanted it.

 

[Cyan]

What's the point of putting pressure on Microsoft now that they explained how it works?
Does anyone still thinks there's a possibility they'll backtrack?

If I understand correctly that they haven't implemented a robust disc-level copy protection and never intended to have one, and never had a Plan B, it's probably way too late now, even if they wanted it.

It is a typical practice of companies to send trial balloons and see how people react.

If you judge by people's words the console is already dead before even being born.

There is hope though --they fear the reactions. This has been written by Microsoft, not me.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

As we move into this new generation of games and entertainment, from time to time, Microsoft may change its policies, terms, products and services to reflect modifications and improvements to our services, feedback from customers and our business partners or changes in our business priorities and business models or for other reasons. We may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons.


In the months ahead, we will continue to listen to your feedback as we meet with our partners in the ecosystem to bring additional detail about our policies.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Moral rights of copyright and software ownership.

 

[BRiT]

Moved the last civil discussion on Ownership over to the XBox One & PS4 DRM and You thread.